Thames Sailing Barge Stuff

[tomarackParticipant @tomarack]

Hi Eddie,

do you know booklet by R. Chesney – Building a model TSB in Wood or GRP <??

Tom

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Tom/Eddie,

I think most people in the UK have a copy of Richards booklet he used to give them out at the shows, I have several copies let me know if you need one, plans for Westmorland included . PM me your address if you would like a copy?

Regards Ray

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. Ray/Tom, Have just had a great day at Faversham, around 6 barges moored there, including Repertor and Ironside, I have added 3 photo's (out of total of 60) of Mirosa, TB that could be sister to Veronica with only a few minor differences to the drawing of Veronica.

Will post photo's when I have uploaded them to my album.

Eddie.

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

the missing photo's

Eddie.

[tomarackParticipant @tomarack]

Mirosa is very nice barge ,indeed! (I have not seen Veronica's plans ..perhaps as an info in Peter Simmonds short advertising film) 

I admire very professional pictures of Eddie too !!!!!

All the best

Tom

 

Edited By tomarack on 11/09/2018 19:15:58

Edited By tomarack on 11/09/2018 20:01:26

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. Ray, the booklet? arrived this morning, I didn't realise it was so comprehensive, that now gives me 3 barges to build! and with all the other literature I have and all the photo's I took of Mirosa I think I can now build a barge true to scale including the rigging, what appeared to be a daunting task a few months ago should now be fairly? . easy!!

Many thanks for your help in getting me this far so quickly.

Eddie.

[nick vinerParticipant @nickviner52422]

Hi everyone from a new member.

My name is Nick Viner and I was born at the Martello Tower at St Osythe Stone.

The last place I lived in UK. was Rowhedge I emigrated to Australia in 1972 after I left the Royal Navy.

I used to sail in the Colne Estuary all the time growing up. One of the sounds I loved was the clinking of Pauls on the barge windlasses early in the mornings over the misty river mouth.

The reason for this email is to ask all you barge builders if some 'rocker' is desirable in the bottom of a rc model TB.

I fly r/c planes but find after a long winter, which I might add is a bit warmer here than in Essex, I find a yearning to build a barge.Richard Chesney and I, have been in contact, he is talking about the James Piper model at about 42/3 inches.

Is this a good well shaped barge that sails well? Or should I be looking at another set of lines?

Any thoughts welcome.

Regards, Nick.

[Reg Hale 1Participant @reghale1]

Hi Nick

You will find the James Piper with a rocker bottom a fast and well handling barge.

Dave Watts at Mast Man dose a fiber glass hull

Regards, Reg.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Nick,

I have been sailing Richard's design Veronica for 4 seasons, she is a good performer and no rocker on the hull, boat speed is mostly about the rig & set up, my 30" Giralda has rocker and would have won the trophy this year but I missed one the marks never mind may do better next year

Regards Ray

[tomarackParticipant @tomarack]

Hi Nick,

look here, please …

> https://docplayer.net/44439682-Building-a-model-thames-sailing-barge.html

one of the books describing in brief the construction of the tsb model

I found next source >    http://www.tonyscottageboatyard.co.uk/index.htm

I do not know if it still works ..maybe the boys here will know more about this possibility.

wishing success

Tom

Edited By tomarack on 17/09/2018 20:10:05

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All,

I'm afraid Tony Williams is no longer with us but Dave Watts aka Mastman has an extensive range of hulls & fittings Veronica plans from S A R I K + CNC kit for the hull & Peter Simmonds DVD.

Regards Ray

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. Ray, I have been waiting for some one to ask the question what's a rocker bottom but no one has so I have had to own up to my ignorance.

Eddie.

[nick vinerParticipant @nickviner52422]

Eddie, rocker is the amount of upward curve in the bottom of a boat hull or keel.

It usually helps to have a bit of it towards the bow as it helps the hull to spin up through the wind when going about.

I expect the name comes from the shape of a basic old rocking chair runner.

Hope this is of some help. Regards Nick

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. Nick, Yes thank you it does help, I thought it might be some sought of weight moved opposite to the heeling of the boat by some ingenious mechanism!

Many thanks

Eddie.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Eddie,

Yes Nick beat me too it Veronica has a flat keel & bottom stem to stern which equals no rocker, but the keel on Giralda rises at both bow & stern following the shearline of the deck which makes her more sea kindly to take on a swell. Most tsb's designed for river work have flat decks as Lady of the Lea which you may have seen at Faversham ?

Regards Ray

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. Ray, yes I did see Lady of the Lea but as she was moored up against the old building there I could only get a photo of her stem and stern, as I said before Mirosa was there and looking at the photos I took she looks very much like the Veronica drawings, do you know if she was built by the same people

Looking at the pictures and reading Masts and Spars I now have a much better understanding of all the rigging both the standing and running.

I am back home tomorrow so will be able to get back to building, I will keep you posted.

Regards Eddie

[tomarackParticipant @tomarack]

Hi Eddie ,

I also did not know the exact definition .. and so I asked UncleGoogle .

look here please..

http://www.backinthesameboat.com/180213_sameboatshorts/

very interesting pages…

Tom

 

Edited By tomarack on 22/09/2018 18:03:16

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

I have now finished planking the deck, it just needs a couple of coats of sanding sealer.

Having read conflicting advice on what controls are needed to sail a TSB I have gone for full control of everything.

With all the outlets for the sheets in place I can then choose which ones to use. Under the side decks there are two more tubes, one each side to allow me to lift and lower the lea boards, I feel that being such a prominent part of a TSB they should be working, I know they will only add drag and slow the boat down but I an not into racing, not yet any way.

The centre outlet is for the mainsail, the two at the front at the sides are for the vangs, but only one will be used now, after talking to Ray at Headcorn, the two behind are for the lea boards, there is also a loop of tube going around under the rear deck to take the winch line for the main sail control.

The two outlets for sheets are for the foresail, the first one, and the second is for the main sail, as someone wrote that it is better to control that sail from this position, I will see, it's there if needed!

Finally the hull has had a coat of epoxy resin and glass and is ready for paint.

Eddie.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Eddie,

She is looking very good I like the idea of the operational lea boards may need some sheet lead in them to stop them floating ? There is an AMBO member from Penzance who sails his barge with proper steel lea boards and no fin & bulb, a real challenge but can't point as well as the fin keel barges. It's going to be busy under your deck with all those lines !! Is there a washer soldered on your keel tube ? to stop it pulling out the bottom?

Kind regards Ray

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. Ray, the lea boards have a sheet brass centre about 18g and a piece of lead across the bottom, they are quite heavy.

I have the drawings for Celia Jane and that has no keel, but is loaded to 42!lbs.

I didn't think of a washer at the keel but one on the top would bear on the four supporting wooden angles so taking the weight of the keel, I hope.

Yes there could be six servos under there but all easily removed when things go wrong, as I suppose they will at some time.

Regards Eddie.

[tomarackParticipant @tomarack]

Hi,

Eddie.. really very  clean made deck, on my model I did not try it .. I choose the color deck, the boards would not be seen as well.

I made leeboards of 1.5 mm thick aluminum sheet, I glued the spruce boards 2 x 12 mm from the outside.

I have no problem with their weight, they can be reliably controlled.

I tested my model Capricorn using leeboards, without a medium keel, with very mild wind.This did not work, the model had really great lateral drift. Maybe with a better sail setting the result will be different. But I will not be able to test it until next year.

6 servos… Eddie..I think it's too much to control. But It's your choice. I would rather choose the way to gradually add servos if you want to have them. Look – Peter Simmonds has 3 servos in Veronica (main sheet, vangs and rudder) .. and wins ..
Somewhere I read about the possibility of coupling leeboard with a staysail sheet …. maybe also an option.

In any case, expect problems with ropes to sheets of sails and vangs. There's really little room in the hull.

However I wish you everything worked in your model.

Greetings

Tom

 

 

 

Edited By tomarack on 02/10/2018 15:47:44

[Andrew B 1Participant @andrewb1]

Hi – totally agree with Tom

The full sized barges 'invented' self tacking fores'ls….the correct name for the chain round the fore horse is the sheet. The sheet is not adjustable in normal use on the real thing. There is no point putting a servo on the fores'l.

My barge is a Peter Simmonds' one and has rudder , main sheet and vangs, ( wangs ). I'm adding what I hope will be working leeboards, but working leeboards ( note correct spelling ) are totally cosmetic on a model, but I'm still going to go for them because it annoys me seeing the model sailing along with them up. I've mounted a servo right forward in the fore hold, with an arm the whole width of the hull. I am using a 'snake' to control them. Like on the full size barges I'm assuming the board will only drop if its let go at exactly the right moment, when the barge is vertical and before she start to lean on the new board once the mains'l has filled with wind.

[tomarackParticipant @tomarack]

Hi,

another problem is staysail (maybe jib too) control. There are several options but I can not yet decide which control to choose.

Kim Holland has (as I mean) the fixed length of the sheets of the staysail sail, the sail turns itself on the leeward side during the turn. I have a very large staysail on the Capricorn model, this design does not suit me. I'm thinking of using a lever servo that would allow the sheets loosened during the turn and allow the big sail to move to leeward. After the turn (tack or coming about), I would shorten the length of the sheets again. But I'm not decided yet – .I am still undecided which way to choose.

Tom

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. All, thank you for your useful comments, perhaps what I should have said there is provision for 6 servos, I will not necessarily fit them all.

As you say Andrew the foresail is not under any control on the full size so that brings me down to 5 servos, the leaboards will be controlled by 2 winches,and 2 switches on the transmitter, switch up leaboard up, switch down leaboard down, that just leaves me with the mainsail, vangs and rudder, the rudder will be on the right stick as normal and the mainsail on the left stick up and down as I sail at the moment and the vangs on the left stick side to side. I hope that will all work, I will let you know in due coarse.

Having watched a number of videos of the full size I have come to realise what a 'simple' boat it is to sail with what appears, at first sight, to be a very complicated set of rigging both standing and running.

Another couple of photos of my build, the first rail going on, I have used cocktail sticks as supports, I can then plane and sand the rails down to the correct height.

Eddie.

[Simon Harlett 1Participant @simonharlett1]

hi there, I have just started the Veronica build using the plans, former set and dvd from sarik. This will be my 1st venture into sailing boats having spent 40 years building aircraft and scale lifeboats. Whilst I will not have any issues building the barge to a high standard (basing it on 1 of several barges that can be seen at Maldon, Essex), my issues will come when I start to hook up the sail servos as this is new territory to me. The dvd is an absolute must and an excellent watch, but I’m struggling with what and where the vang is and how it’s controlled. I shall be using 2 high torque servos with extended arms as per the dvd. When I get to that point in the build any advice would be great fully received.

as I’m building this for my pleasure and will not be racing at any point, I shall be installing an off-set motor, prop shaft and prop as is current practice with those ships still in use today. This will also help me get her home if I have a drama with sails! Now then, being an aircraft man means I am brushless person, however my last big build was a rnli solent class lifeboat with 2 x 800 brushed motors. I was thinking of installing a single 800 motor in the barge, is this overkill, and would of course require 12v battery instead of probably 6v. I could go brushless and lipo? Any advice on this again would be appreciated.

if I may, I will upload some pictures as I progresss after the weekend.

Edited By Simon Harlett 1 on 11/10/2018 16:21:49

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