Resurgam Submarine

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Bob W,

Thanks for your kind comments. I think you are the man of 'great precision'! ( I downloaded "Dashwood" and it was excellent reading). I just keep getting it wrong until it works and sometimes it does mi head in! One step forwards and three back! You'l see from my next posting.

Len

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

Just an update and hopefully some useful information. When I shortened the Raboesch propshaft to suit Resurgams hull, I left some 14 mm of threaded drive shaft protruding out of the stern tube internally. Should have been enough for any conventional boat but it was wrong on two accounts. The pulleys are 17mm wide and there need to be lock nuts on either side. Also, the pulley bore is 4mm and "4mm threads" are a lot less. I'm not going to have an eccentrically running pulley so need to make a new shaft (Stubbs siver steel) and have a design think!

Pulling the threaded shaft in and out of the stern tube so many times obviously destroyed the water tight seal. Happily I managed to find replacements for when the job is sorted.

I'm still playing with the position of the motor so one drive belt wasn't going to do the job. I had to buy a selection to give some scope.

My brain hurts!

Len

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

It will all be so worth it when it's done……

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody.

Now have the lower deck in place. Was a bit of a problem but sorted.

Len.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Len

You are conspicuous by your absence!……..Says your pal…….Dave Forrest!

He hoped you would make a appearance here at the ModeBoat Conference, Haydock

Got a picture of his Resurgum, but it won't post on the thread from here

Bob

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

This stand was devoted to the Submarine Age and there were plenty of weird submersibles on show

This model of the Resurgam had a water chamber and pump unit and is said to work quite well

Bob

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Bob A,

Gotcha! I was at the show with mi boat about noon on Sunday. Talked with Dave for about an hour about Resurgam and he was kind enough to take his boat apart and show me how he'd done it.

Basically, he has a diving drain pipe around which he can wrap a Resurgam hull, a Nordenfeldt hull or whatever. Very clever!

Not quite my style though as I like mi boats to be specific. Also, mi intended ballast tank system and blow system was much criticized. Too high a pressure and over complicated. Can't argue as these chaps have working subs and I don't. However, you plough your own furrow!

The show itself was excellent. Pig in muck!

I'm sure we will meet eventually!

Len

Edited By Len Morris 1 on 24/08/2014 23:52:00

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody

Now have the motor installed and a propeller that propellers! Here are pics of the motor mount silvered soldered out of brass.

Then here's a picture of the engine installed in the hull:-

And finally a picture of mi test rig and actual engine testing:-

Know the pics are all out of order with the text but just can't work out the logic of this site to get everything in the right sequence.

Anyway, the motor is now installed! The pic above shows my bench power supply which indicates volts and amps. At the first set up the motor was dragging 5 amps at almost 6 volts and no speed in fresh air! I had far too much tension on the belt drive and a slight axial alignment error. Have learnt something about tooth belt drives. You must get them them in line to stop friction on the side of the belt and a lot of belt tension isn't needed,let the teeth do the work. There's a trick to lining them up but I'll go into that later. Big doos and little doos ended up dragging 2.5 Amps at 6 volts with the prop in a bucket of water splashing it everywhere. Very happy!

In MB Feb 2010 Glynn Guest wrote an excellent article 'Meter Modelling'. Well worth a read. Monitor your amps and adjust you motor alignment for the lowest reading. Works a treat!

Now the motor is in, need to get the solenoid in for the rudders.

Len

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Len

Don`t tell me you`ve butt jointed the motor mount and hinge to the base plate?

I realise you`ve silver soldered the joints, but you could have used nuts and bolts!…..lol

Can`t make out your first picture?

My pc can`t get the picture posting in the right order!

Can`t add text after the photo`s either

There`s something wrong with the system, somewhere

Bob

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Bob A,

There are 3 reasons why I modified the hinge and butt jointed it. I wanted (and needed) the mount to sit flush on a flat surface. Nuts and bolts would have given no end of interference problems. Next, taking the 'Rickover' stance that if it can go wrong it will in a submarine, I eliminated 3 nut and bolts that would require a major strip down to get to – my silver solder won't come loose. And finally, when it's all tarted up it'll look right as opposed to a hinge nicked from a kitchen cabinet, which actually it is, the middle one from a set of three!

In reality the whole thing could have been soft soldered and still have been amply strong enough. Just another Rickover moment I suppose! The real trick in the whole affair was soldering it up and not soldering the hinge solid!

My first picture should have been my last picture and was the last thing I entered into the post! Why it chucked it up first thing before any text I have no idea, and it was meant to be the best bit of the post! It shows Resurgams stern stuck in a bucket of water with the motor a full thrash. Amps and Volts on the money with spray everywhere (you did ask Bob when you could expect to see her in the water)! The pics in my album if it's a definition thind.

I've found that after posting a picture, if you put the cursor at the extreme bottom right and hit return it will put you back into text mode. That's just my PC and it could be different for others. The logic I am now trying is first write the text, then add the pictures in reverse order!

I agree, 'There's something wrong with our bxxxxx ships today'!

Best regards,

Len

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Gotcha, Len

I`m slightly relieved that you are having the same pc trouble with this website

It hasn`t always been like this

We need to have a word with Colin about it

Colin

"We can`t add text after a photo is loaded onto the thread"

Bob and Len

[lnvisiblemanParticipant @lnvisibleman]

I don't seem to have too much of a problem but it is a bit fiddly. The site always wants to put the photo at the bottom of the last piece of text and then when you then type, it goes above the photo if left to it's own devices. I find that I have to tab down and across to get text in the right place.

Mike

Edited By lnvisibleman on 02/09/2014 10:48:07

Edited By lnvisibleman on 02/09/2014 10:48:51

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Dear Bob A and Mike,

Thanks for the comments. If you read the thread 'Irrelevant Question' in the Soapbox section it covers or at least describes our concerns ( it's your thread Bob)! I suggested a thread for 'Site Solutions', but Ashley disagreed (in quite a humorous manner) and I let he matter go. Now I'm going to do it for two reasons. Firstly it needs to be done. And secondly my Resurgam thread is about Resurgam not site problems!

Look out for 'Site Posting – Problems and Solutions'

If we can focus all the knowledge of users into one thread it will be a very useful tool. I expect lots of input from Ashley!

Len.

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

Now have rudder servo in place. The pictures show the hull cleaned inside (careful use of paint stripper), the brackets soldered in place and the servo mounted.

The exact position took a bit of thought so that everything (so far) can go in and come out. Getting the rudder control rods in is going to be fiddly and I can see some special 'Resurgam tools' having to be made. Bit like putting a ship in a bottle! Will post next when the rudders waggle.

Len

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Progressing nicely Len, and a pleasure to watch. (So very different from my "non engineering"!)

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

We now have rudders that waggle! It was a bit of a job and took some working out. Pic one is just a recap of the control rods to be installed.

Each rudder shaft is kept in place by the central keeper rod. The clamp keeps everything rigid once it's all in place. It became obvious very quickly that the only way it was going to get installed was with the hull vertical and lots of light to see what was going on. The next pic shows mi boat rubber banded to the stand and the whole thing vertical, stern down.

Each rudder arm control rod was poked down to the stern and hooked in place. This proved quite difficult when they were cut to their correct shorter length and needle nose pliers didn't really help. The answer was to slide a bit of 2 mm bore brass tubing over the rod to extend its length for easy handling. The tube was ever so slightly bent so that it gripped the rod but could be easily slid off after the rod was in place. The rods had to be kept in place while the central keeper rod was slid into position and eventually this was done with a bit of foam rubber.

This allowed to rods to be moved about while the keeper was slid on.

Next the clamp was slid on………..

…….and the whole assembly aligned and tightened. Here's everything in place.

And Finally the waggle test.

It works, we have rudders! Rock solid and no play. Whew, Job Done!

Just to close thought I'd just chuck in some of my thoughts about Resurgams rudders. I don't think Garrett excelled himself in this area. They are completely unbalanced. Worse, the centre of pressure must be around the extreme tip of the blades. To mechanically get hold of the blades it's done at the thinnest point and they are in front of the propeller.

It will be interesting to see how they perform but I've resigned myself to living with a lot of rudder damage.

Len

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

Just an update. While trying to set up the R/C and rudder linkage, managed to pull the plastic clevis straight of the end of the control rod.

Not surprised to be honest. To get the job underway the clevis was stolen from my HMS Daring destroyer. Old plastic and probably threaded 8BA. Seemed OK and tight enough at the time but made mental note that an upgrade would be required. Resurgams rudders are heavy due to the O ring seals. The clevis lasted about 20 waggles! Metal ones ordered and received today.

Unfortunately they would not screw cleanly on to the control rod and became very tight before the rod could exit the bore of the clevis. Time for some validation. An M2 tap flew down the bore of the clevis with no problem at all. My new M2 die flew down the control rod (and it's not a split die) so should give the correct diameter. A commercial nut flies down the control rod and a commercial M2 bolt screws easily into the clevis.

The only conclusion is that the thread on the rod is skewed because it was done by hand. Short female threads don't have a problem but the long ones in the clevis do.

Time for a remake. The central control rod is going to get re-threaded in the lathe using the tail stock die holder. This will fix the immediate problem. However, while all the kit is out the individual rudder control rods are going to get threaded also so they can be nutted either side of the clamp.

This is just another 'Rickover ' moment to ensure there can be no slippage. As a final note, there was some flex on the servo mounts. Nothing significant but unexpected. They are going to be braced back to the hull for rigidity.

Len

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

The thread on the control rod was corrected in the lathe. Should have done it in the lathe the first time round but small threads are deceptive and you can get away with it until some accuracy is needed. The good thing is that M2 thread is so fine, you can thread at normal low speed and not have to mess about in back gear.

Here's a picture of the final rudder control assembly once all the rods were threaded.

And here is a close up of the nutted assembly. The nuts don't have to be particularly tight. They just guarantee there can be no slippage at the clamp arm.

The servo mounts were braced which obviously increased their rigidity enormously.

Then after a bit of a paint everything was reinstalled. Much less of an effort this time as I made some specific Resurgam tools. Here's a picture of the final job.

The servo arm has been shortened to get the geometry right. Rudder done. End Of.!

Next job is the main battery installation and this needs to be slideable fore and aft under servo control to maintrain level trim. I have a cunning plan!

Len

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

……a plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it , and call it a weasel?

Keep up the good work!

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

More cunning than a fox that's just been appointed Professor of cunning at Oxford University!

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Now that is cunning

I shall look forward to the revelation!

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

Here's how I've installed the battery. Job one was to get hold of it. Although they look nice and square and brick shaped they're not. They have a fine taper top to bottom of about 2mm on all sides. So, made a brass frame that is true, to clamp around the battery casing. It's soldered and screwed so it ain't cumming apart.

The fore and aft side pieces are brass channel sections. These slip onto guide rails that are soldered to the hull.

The next pic shows the rods in the frame with the lugs that were soldered to the boat.

Here it is soldered in the hull.

And here is the frame slid full astern.

And full forwards.

There is no way such extreme movements will be required but it just shows the potential. The final pic shows the battery in place and the servo position. Yet to be installed but that's an easy matter. Very happy with the result. Everything is adjustable and once everything is locked in place, the battery slides like the top slide on a lathe.

Not very happy with the slotting on the brass strips but that's another story! Job done. Now for the hydroplanes.

Len

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

Just a couple of pics to show the finished battery installation. The servo was screwed to the deck plate on 4 aluminium pillars:-

There was no room for a control rod as such. It ended up being an 'eye' screwed directly onto the clevis and working on a vertical pin soldered into the battery frame. The eye was reamered to make sure there was no play at the pin joint and the fastenings were replaced with stainless steel.

The battery can be slid 10 mm either side of it's centre of gravity which is set directly under the hydroplane shaft. This gives a weight shift of some 300 grams (150 on the bow and 150 off the stern and vica versa). I'm hoping this will be enough to control the pitch fast enough for what will be a 7 kg boat at neutral buoyancy.

We'll see!

Len

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Everybody,

Just an update. Here's the fitting I made to connect the hydroplane shafts:-

….and here it is installed:-

Notice the silicon tubing where the shafts enter the hull. They are quite tight and do an excellent sealing job. The planes only have to move say 30 degrees in each direction and the silicon copes with the job easily, without slipping on the tube or shaft and without putting any undue load on the system.

Now need to install the hydroplane servo.

Len

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Looking good Len.

I had imagined something similar for moving the battery fore and aft, but had envisioned a long screw to shift the tray back and forth, expecting more movement. Are you going to couple the hydroplanes and weight shift or operate independently?

Aj

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