Fairey Fisherman 27 Motor Sailer

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Hi Chris,

Yes it was a bit hard to get my head around! I was particularly interested as when I retired I bought a full size Jaguar 21 yacht which had a drop keel and caused me all sorts of grief!

If you have the time and inclination you can read the sorry story here which I posted online back in 2006.

https://jaguaryachts.uk/jaguar21/colin_bishop_keel_problems.html

Puts our model problems into perspective perhaps?

Colin

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Blimey Colin I’m not surprised! Glad my problems are 1:12 sized!

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

I’m keeping it simple with the Lysander build, the keel box is integral to the keel and will be braced once the hull is sheeted, is the Fisherman plank on frame ?

Regards Ray

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Yes, that is more simple as the keel box is flush with the bottom of the keel. Mine isn’t and I don’t want to increase the thickness of the protruding part of the keel. Yes, mine is plank on frame. It was partly because of this complication that when I first started I was considering a bolt on keel.

Will do a little more later when my head clears! Celebration last night!

Chris

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Didn’t think I had much more to do with the drawings but as usual still kept finding things to do along with some modifications. I think I’m there though now so will soon be able to print out ready for transferring to the timber.

I’d bought the motor sometime ago when stocking up for future builds and yes it’s brushless! Dinky little thing being an Overlander 2826/18 1000kV which will be driving a 3 blade 30mm brass prop.

Prop shaft arrived today. My usual Raboesch but fitted with a skeg. The arms of which will be cut off to allow gluing into the keel.

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

Way to go 🙂

Cutting wood soon , I’d recommend you block the bow & stern, just plank the bit in the middle.

Regards Ray

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Hi Ray

Was thinking that but as I’m going to diagonally plank thought I’d have a go at that, but we will see once I’ve got the frames set up. Was thinking that using balsa blocks at the stern would get in the way of the rudder linkage etc? I think this build is going to evolve as I go along to some extent!

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

That explains why you have so many stringers 🙂

The blocks at the stern can be hollowed out ok , or built up with 1/2″ balsa sheet or Styrofoam, I have done this on my Canoe/Cruiser stern boats Shandau & Oldenburg

Good to see you building again, the winter months !! long dark evenings 🙁

Regards Ray

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks Ray. I’ll have another look at those builds.

I was undecided as to whether to plank longitudinally, which I thought may be easier, apart from the bow and stern, or diagonally, so was giving myself options.

At least I’m painting it so if I do make a pigs ear of it I can cover it up!

Just got to get to the A3 printer and I can print it off.

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

I would plank longitudinally with 1/8″ balsa it’s much easier than double diagonal which works well on MTB’s but not round a relatively small small radius with 1/32″ ply , might end up looking like a venetian blind  🙂

It’s also hard to plank neatly to the stem that’s why I use blocks.

Regards  Ray

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Aha Ray

We have caught you out.  You have done some very nice sheeting on the Lysander right to the bow and it looks very good.

I like your cant frames Chris.

Another system is to go American where the inner skin is diagonal and the outer skin is fore and aft planking.  The inner skin is about 1/3 the thickness of the outer planking.  The thin inner skin should be easy to bend and the outer planking will remove any venetian blind effect.  You get a 100% gluing area for the outer planking and the result is so strong you could take most of your frames away just leaving the ones you need as bulkheads.

Tim

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Tim,

I planked my Surfury in a similar way, but diagonal both ways. As you rightly say, the outer gluing area is great and the hull certainly ends up very strong but light in weight.

Jim.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks for the advice chaps. I had hoped to just do one layer but two certainly has its merits. If the first layer doesn’t come out very well I can add the second one!

I’ll get the keel and frames cut out and assembled and then I can give it some more thought.

Has anyone ever done vertical planking? Could be the answer at the stern?

Chris

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I’d go with Ray’s advice. Plank where it is easy and use blocks where it it isn’t. It is a tried and tested method.

With my liner I have used a combination of bread and butter for the bilges, sheet amidships, planking fore and aft and balsa blocks at the extremities. Horses for courses. Composite construction.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about planking in balsa before so now is a good a time as any and use blocks at bow and stern. Shouldn’t be a problem for the rudder mechanics as I was going to borrow your Greek fishing boat method.

Tim – glad you like the canted frames. When drawing up the hull I just thought it was a good idea to have the planking and stringers at right angles given the curves and it made it easier for me to visualise the hull shape. When returning to the project I nearly reverted to normal frames but it was going to be a lot of work and I thought why, give it a go! Also my head started to hurt thinking of how the hull shape  and therefore frames would be impacted. Whether it is right anyway we shall see.

Full-size has traditional frames and if there’d been any hull lines available I would have gone down that route.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Just done a bit more tweaking for accommodating the balsa blocks and have printed out the templates for the hull. It’s so useful having an A3 printer as all but my biggest builds fit onto two sheets and are easily taped together.

Got the two planks of 9mm mahogany off the shelf yesterday. Bought them years ago and thankfully they are virtually dead straight with less than 1mm over 915mm, I can live with that!

Before cutting the keel out though I need to set up the Sheppard band saw which I must have bought at least a couple of years ago from a forum member and haven’t used yet. I took the cast iron table off it to lift the saw onto my workbench – it weighs a ton! Not a problem years ago but it is now!

Evidently the saw cuts fine but having been used to a scroll saw I find the blade to be a bit viscous looking! I did look at getting a finer blade when I got it.

Chris

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Chris, I have an Axminster band saw and have, what looks like, the same blade fitted.  I thought exactly as you did that it looks a little vicious and so bought a finer blade.

However!  I initially bought the saw because I wanted to cut a resin building up to fit on the model railway into the backscene.  I thought I’d give it a go with the original blade and was amazed at the beautifully clean and neat cut I got through resin.  There was no shattering at the cut and the cut was so fine as to even go through the detail of the guttering downpipe without breaking it.  Consequently I’ve never bothered fitting the spare blade.

One consideration to take into account however is the radius of curvature of the cuts you intend making.  If they are a tight radius the original blade is a little bit wide so you might have to consider a narrower blade.  I would try a couple of cuts in scrap material and see if you can comfortably get the radius you need. I don’t know if minimum radii are quoted anywhere but it’s worth looking.  Axminster have an excellent website with links to some superb YouTube videos of information and setting up and they are incredibly helpful on the phone so they might also guide you as regards minimum radii for specific blades.

I have to say, I don’t know the make of yours, but that is a hell of a size motor for a hobby band saw.  Treat that thing with huge respect!

Another thing worth considering, if you are going to use the saw in an environment where the dust might become a pain then seriously consider connecting a vacuum up to the outlet.  It makes a huge difference.  I have one connected up that has an outlet socket built in and so automatically cuts in when the saw is started.

 

 

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Morning Richard – thanks for the information on the blade and how well they cut. I’m probably only going to use it on the keel, so no tight curves. If I do have a problem I’ll use the scroll saw. I shall revert to my scroll saw anyway for the frames etc.

As regards the motor it does look a bit of a beast doesn’t it! Though the spec. says it’s only 300w so maybe not? My DIY DeWalt mitre saw is a lot more powerful.

I bought one of those vacuums following your recommendation and it has been excellent. Not used it for the workshop yet but it’s given sterling service when working on my son’s flat over the last few months. Wished I’d bought one before instead of abusing the domestic vacuum!

Chris

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Progress has been sporadic lately but it’s good to be building again. First job was to cut out the frames in 3mm ply having transferred the drawings using my preferred method of carbon paper. Following advice on here I’m going to plank in balsa and use balsa blocks, certainly at the stern. I’ve retained the notches for stringers to give me a feel as to whether the hull shape is right and give me options for the direction of planking if needed.

A building board was cut down from an old shelf – made easier as I’ve now got my lightweight Workmate back home.

Then on with the hull keel. Being mahogany I didn’t know how well the carbon lines would show up so bought a white Sharpie just incase – needn’t have worried as I could see the lines fine including some in pencil I added. The template had to be transferred to both sides of the keel as the angled frames need to be accurately positioned and of course there is the stringers fixed to the keel.

I’d set up my scroll saw before starting this build and with a new blade and taking it easy it coped with cutting the 9mm mahogany and the cut was nice and square – would have needed it for some of the cuts anyway. I replaced the blades a couple of times to ensure they were sharp. I might actually use the bandsaw one day!

Rather than use one wide board I’d bought a couple of smaller ones with view to making the keel in three parts with the two smaller parts just being the topmost parts of the bow and stern with joints introduced to increase the gluing area. Bit of sanding to the lines with a selection of invaluable PermaGrit blocks and files and ready for gluing together.

Chris

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Great to see you back Chris.

I see you were locked out of your own thread.  That was a bit unfriendly!

Really looking forward to seeing this one develop.

Tim

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks Tim, yes indeed!

I’ve been really looking forward to it as well given that it’s something different for me and has a few challenges.

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

Brilliant to see you cutting wood 🙂 she will make a great design/build article of the magazine I’m sure, and cover your modelling costs for a while 🙂

Regards Ray

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Thanks Ray.

It’s going to have to be a quicker build then than the other Faireys and will have to see it through rather than starting other builds as before if I do that! And it depends on how the hull turns out!

Chris

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

How are you going to cut the slot in that lovely piece of mahogany for the fin keel ??

I’d be tempted to move it forward slightly, it looks like it’s a midships at the moment and  that wont sail all that well in my experience 🙂

Regards Ray

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Yeah, hit a bit of a problem there! I bought the timber quite sometime ago before deciding to use a DF keel. The “sleeve” for the keel is virtually as wide as the hull keel though unfortunately.

The keel is going to be painted so the plan is to just cut out the section of keel. I glued a doubler to it last night to enable  me to do that. It will make gluing in of the sleeve and filling easier. Whilst the full-size boat keels are painted it would be nice to varnish it though. I could just paint the section where the keel passes through as it will hardly be noticeable and fit with the drop keel.

I did do a bit of reading on other builds etc. as regards the positioning of the drop keel and found it a bit baffling. In the end I positioned it with reference to my DF65 though of course with that the keel and mast are closer together. If anything I thought I’d got the keel a bit too far forward? I can move it forwards more though.

I won’t be doing anymore until Monday so still time to make changes.

Chris

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