Advice and idea’s needed please

[John Johnston 6Participant @johnjohnston6]

Hi guys,

I have a model (toy) boat that was given to me when I was a young boy nearly 70 years ago. It was picked up in poor condition by my father who painted it and fashioned a rough mast, and my mother sewed some material to make a very rough sail. It has never been on water (during my lifetime) and I doubt it ever worked properly, but the sentiment behind it is immense and I can't bear to part with it.

Recently I have brought it down from it's lifetime in the attic and decided, rightly or wrongly, to re-fashion it and make some sort of display model out of it. I like shiny varnished wood and so that is the direction I'm heading. I am in the process of stripping multiple layers of paint off and sanding the hull ready for staining and varnishing, however, for reasons of space, I think I would like to do away with the mast and sail and maybe add some sort of cabin superstructure to try and move it one small step nearer to being 'model' rather than 'toy'.

This is not your normal type of modelling in so much as I'm not concerned about functionality or realism but I'd be hugely grateful for any comments, hints, tips and idea's to help me make something nice out of this featureless hull. Thanks in advance.

[John Johnston 6Participant @johnjohnston6]

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

John,

That is a yacht hull and you really cannot realistically convert it to something else. You need to retain the mast and boom etc. but no reason why you could not add a cabin and cockpit to make it look like a scale cruising yacht.

Colin

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Hello John . I would go with Colin on this one. It is yacht hull and has to be a yacht.

it may be difficult to strip the hull properly to get an all-wood shiny varnish finish.

As a suggestion, I would smooth the hull nicely, refinish it in the original colour, stick a nice shiny wood deck on it (for the wood bit) and go for the traditional “pond yacht look”, as that is what it is.

To retain the nostalgic element a new mast finished in blue paint (assuming this is how it was originally) could be made and perhaps a better sail, from material matching the original. A fabric shop would be able to match that, if not perfectly, then almost the same. Most toy yachts might have had demountable or pivoting masts, and this would be very easy to do thus alleviating the space issue and would give a better look to the hull when on display.

no reason why you could not only have a nice model to look at, but one that sails as well. I would have thought the sight of the model on a pond after a 70 year gap would be most rewarding. Hankies at the ready!

Ashley

 

Edited By ashley needham on 18/11/2019 09:14:17

Edited By ashley needham on 18/11/2019 09:15:35

Edited By ashley needham on 18/11/2019 09:16:59

[John Johnston 6Participant @johnjohnston6]

Thank you both very much and my apologies for not getting back sooner but my wretched internet has been down.

I don't know if there are recognised proportions to boats (I guess there is) but this hull is 30" long and 7.5" wide. I'm thinking that a mast would have to be something like 30" tall and that makes for a big model. That said, I'm not one to ask for advice and then ignore it so, since you're both of the same mind that this is unmistakably a sailing boat then that is the way I need to go.

Before posting here I had already begun the paint stripping process and have now stripped back to bare wood. I'm loving the grain and thinking that I'd like to try and stain and varnish the boat. Given that it isn't going to be floated I needn't worry about waterproof treatments or the likes.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Brian. It looks like the hull has cleaned up well! A stain and varnish will have it looking great. Acrylic varnishes do not yellow with age which will keep your initial varnished colour the same over the years, however the darkening of polyurethane varnish can also look nice, and give it that well-aged look. Almost any varnish will be ok for the odd sail..🤔

Regarding the mast…it’s a bit heretical, but, look at pictures of pond yachts..get a bit of bamboo, make some paper sails and see what looks pleasing to the eye for you size wise if you do not intend to sail it. As I said, there is always the option to make a much smaller mast and have it folded down.

pictures ont’internet should also give you an idea regarding fittings etc.

Ashley

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Brian

I go with Ashley's first post. You have a rather nice little pond yacht that was clearly built to sail with that lead ballast in the keel. It wouldn't be that much harder to make it sail again and a first for you, as well as having a lovely ornament.

I will be blunt. If you stain and varnish that hull I think you are in danger in turning it into the sort of nondescript, and ugly lamp base, the sort of which you can find in a charity shop.

You will get plenty of suggestions on here and you could varnish the deck to your heart's content.

I tell you what. If you promise to restore it as a working pond yacht, I promise to make two sails for you.

Tim R

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I agree with Tim. Staining that grain pattern will simply produce an ornament. It needs to be painted.

Colin

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

lovely hull, and like what has been said there is nothing that one could do to change type of rig and vessel from a yacht.appearance. have a look at this, a Morecambe bay prawner……..she would lend herself top side to one of these with a cabin rather than the old well decked vessel. just google Morecambe bay prawner and look at images.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

A Morecombe bay prawner. There’s a name to conjour with!

googled that and a fine looking boat. Your work sanding the hull should enable a great painted finish. I use lots of undercoat, well rubbed down, as a liquid filler to fill the grain, if required, but yours may not need this as it has been painted already.

Brian. I would go with this suggestion and take up Tim’s very generous offer to make the rags, as this for you would likely be the tricky bit.

Ashley

[John Johnston 6Participant @johnjohnston6]

I don't know who Brian is but my name is John.

I can't thank you guys enough for your comments and suggestions (and Tim for his generous offer), all of which have been taken on board (pun intended), however I feel I'm going to disappoint. When registering to the forum and asking for help I hadn't considered the fact that model boat enthusiasts aren't going to suggest anything that detracts from this hull being anything other than a functioning model sailing boat. Staining the wood to produce an ornament would be sacrilege to you, and yet I would be very pleased if it turned out well enough for this old toy hull to be on display at last. (I can hear you all cringing from here – LOL).

It's important to point out that I have zero modelling skills and 'craft' work is completely beyond me. Neither do I have the interest to use this as a starting point for a new hobby. As a result, my decision is to varnish the hull and, if I can get that bit right, decorate it with some railing round the edge of the hull, some bollards, and maybe a few other bits and pieces from the hobby shop. It's clear that I will be creating a frankensteins monster in the eye's of modellers and boat enthusiasts, but if I can make this more appealing than the nicely shaped block of wood that it is right now, then I shall be pleased.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hello John,

Beauty is in the the eye of the beholder, but you did ask members of a model boat forum!

Regards Ray

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Hi John

Sorry about getting the name wrong.

I am a bit sorry about the boat.

My offer still stands.

Cherish what you have.

Tim R

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

John. There is no right or wrong here. It is you boat, you do with it what you will. We have given our views which you can go with or ignore. No one here will get the hump.

All I can say is that for years it has survived in a painted condition, and if that’s what your memories are of it, just envisage that you will be looking at something different for the next 200 years (or so).

Let us see the finished article! Ashley

[John Johnston 6Participant @johnjohnston6]

Thanks gents. I'm far from sure that I'm going to get the sort of finish I want when varnishing this hull as I've never done anything like this before. You've now provided me with a second string to my bow because, if the result is disappointing, then I'll resort to painting it after all.

As an aside, when I stripped the hull I discovered a small raised wooden edging around the edge of the deck. It was in a darker wood and is about 2mm wide and 4mm high with a curved top edge. I've attached the best photo I have of it. Is this the sort of thing I'd be able to buy from a model shop? I've been googling everything I can think of but can't get anywhere near close.

Edited By John Johnston 6 on 23/11/2019 14:04:00

[John Johnston 6Participant @johnjohnston6]

Hmmm …. I can't find a way of editing my last post.

I was wrong about the sizes of the 'edging'. It's actually 5mm thick and 4mm high, and I've attached a photo. I'm not concerned about matching it ….. just need something to replace it with.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

You can buy stripwood of various types approximating the size you mention but the problem with buying online is the postage costs which are likely to well exceed the cost of the wood which is why many people prefer to buy at shows.

You can see what is on offer here:

**LINK**

If you have a model shop within striking distance then it's certainly worth trying them, phone or email first.

Commonly stocked woods will be obechi, bass/lime or mahogany. The light woods can of course be stained to whatever colour you want. The usual stock length is 36 inches.

Colin

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi John.

Looking at the photo of your hull, it looks like it has a lead-tipped keel and, so, was probably intended for use on water. I couldn't quite make out if it has a hinged rudder or not ?

If it has, adding a cabin plus some simple radio control (hidden inside) could make an interesting conversion – you could try just steering to start with and with some sails from Tim (what a generous offer !) these could be 'pre-set' at the pond side according to local conditions.

Later on, you could add radio control over sails as well (although this may mean going down below deck level). Now that you've got a nice hull (the difficult bit !) it would be a shame not to get it sailing again…..just a thought !

Regards,

Dave

[Roy Verden 1Participant @royverden1]

Hi John, as you say it is your boat. From the character of the hull which has the lead not too far down, the sails woud have been a gaff rig. This means you can indulge yourself in bright shiny wood booms. The mast would have a gaff with what are called jaws resting on the mast but held up by the mast. As has been suggested look at a picture of a full size boat. There is a lot of rigging (string) which will give you the character you are looking for.

As far as deck furniture goes a small anchor (2-3cms)with some cleats rather than bollards (which would be seriously out of place) and a Samson post towards the bow with some rope coiled or in hanks hanging from the mast would suit.

Ropes would be a brown colour and suitable sizes can be bought.

I surmise the hull is solid and you have a flat deck? Get this smooth and well rubbed down. Do not use a paint brush to varnish the deck but put a little cloth on one finger and rub the varnish on to the deck quite thinly. It will dry very quickly and several coats will not take long. This will give you a much flatter and appealing surface than a paint brush would. In fact I would do the whole hull in this manner.

For attaching the shrouds (mast string) I use small eyes with a small washer and then screw them into the deck, this looks better than an eye on its own.

Attach the sails to the booms with a continuous loop every 3 cms or so. If you do these things you will not need much in the way of deck fittings and she should look nice.

Good luck

Roy

[John Johnston 6Participant @johnjohnston6]

Thank you all for your advice and suggestions…. it's greatly appreciated.

Dave, the boat does have a hinged rudder which is turned by a knurled 'nut' on the deck, but I've never understood what operates it. I appreciate your suggestion about adding radio but I think that would be a step to far …. I'm well out of my comfort zone already.

Roy, I've been looking at Gaff Rigs online and can see a lot of potential in going that route as it looks as if I could significant;y reduce the overall height of the boat that way. I'll investigate it further once I've finished working on the hull.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi again John

A friend of mine had a yacht like this with adjustable sails and rudder. At the pond side, after he'd assessed the prevailing wind conditions, he set the rudder and rig according to whether it was to be 'close-hauled', a 'reach' or a 'run' to the far bank.

If this is all 'jibberish' to you, contact a local sailing club and, usually, someone will take you out and explain the different 'points of sailing'….it's not difficult once you can relate the boat's direction to the wind. (Be careful the 'bug' might bite !).

As for Gaff /Gunter rigs I've no practical experience of these, but, I sure there are others on the forum who will have a wealth of experience to share. If you want to keep it as a static model that's fine – either make a display case for it or, decide who will have "dusting" responsibilities…

Merry Christmas

Dave

[Roy Verden 1Participant @royverden1]

Hello, with a free sailing boat you should never lock the rudder in position.

If it is pre-set it should be left straight. Best to let a steering device be it Braine or Vane do the steering, as these adjust the rudder from straight to bring the yacht back on course with respect to the wind direction.

regards Roy

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi Roy – Oh, if only we had such sophistication back then (around 1957) !

I seem to remember that unless you set up some 'weather helm' it would luff-up and come to a complete stand still.

However, as it was only really a large public 'paddling pool' we could wade in and retrieve it quite easily…. I guess this may have been due to an unbalanced rig. (Something we had on the early full-size Ospreys).

Regards, Dave

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

Hi. John, is this of any help, it's a boat I refurbished for a friend, it came as a hull without a keel or mast and sails,

These sails are just the paper patterns, the hatches are my addition for access to the radio and steering.

This is it on the water after being fitted with radio.

Regards and good luck wwith your refurb.

Eddie.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Looks lovely Eddie – does it sail well ?

Dave

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