Making Simple Model Steam Engines

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Making Simple Model Steam Engines

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13 June 2007 at 12:54 #10132
gerald towner
Participant
@geraldtowner12084
Has anyone made any of the steam engines to the drawings in Stan Bray’s book ‘Making Simple Model Steam Engines’?
I wanted to build a simple steam engine for a launch built to the old (defunct?) Minivap formula. I made all the parts for the Slim Sam design only to find I couldn’t assemble it. The diameter of the crank disc was made according to drawings was too big. I had to redesign the engine and make new parts which was very annoying. The engine now looks just like the photos in the book but bear little in common with the drawings. It is now made but not steamed yet. A cursory look at the other designs show errors in those drawings. I contacted the publisher 2 months ago and to date they have not responded other than a curt acknowledgement.
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28 April 2008 at 21:40 #13555
Barry Minter 1
Participant
@barryminter1
Hello Gerald,

I have just joined the site so am quite a bit out with the reply but as your mail is still on site I take it you still require some comment.

I too have that book and another by Stan Bray, Model Marine Steam. Both books have glaring errors in dimentions and with the latter book I contacted, in the first instance, the publishers who as usual ignored the comments I made. I contacted Malcolm Beak through the www and he mailed me the supposed correct dimentions for the 2cyl. in line which he designed and was used by Stan in his book.

Needless to say I shall keep clear of any books with that author.

Tubal Cain has a book, Simple Model Steam Engines, all of which have been made and go like trains, or so the grandchildren tell me.

Regards,

Barry.
3 May 2008 at 16:28 #13594
Graham V
Participant
@grahamv75988
Hello Gerald,

I am yet another who has both books and have noticed numerous errors !in both. Fortunately I spotted these before starting on any of the projects.

Although the Model Marine steam book contains useful information, I bought it specifically for the plans of the 2cyl. in line slide valve engine, which apart from dimensional errors, omits details if the slide valve entirely, at least in my copy.

Very dissapointing, as Barry above has discovered.

Regards,

Graham
6 May 2008 at 17:42 #13631
Graham V
Participant
@grahamv75988
Hello all,

I wonder if Barry Minter (above) or anyone else could contact me if they have managed to get corrected and complete drawings for the Malcolm Beak twin cylinder in line slide valve engine in Stan Bray’s book Model Marine steam. I would really like to make this engine.

As has been said the publishers do not respond and Malcom Beak has changed his previously available email address! For good reason I suspect!

Barry Minter does not have the "message me" icon displayed at the end of his posted reply so I can not contact him through this sites messaging system.

If anyone can help, please reply via. the messaging service by clicking on the "message me" icon at the foot of this or directly to [email protected]

Many thanks, and happy modelling,

Graham
11 May 2008 at 22:20 #13675
Malcolm BEAK
Participant
@malcolmbeak51569
Hello there

Barrry – you say I mailed you the "supposed" corectly dimentioned plans for the twin. If they were not correct, please let me know so that I can correct them. (Also let me know if they are correct)

Graham – I certainly havn’t changed my email address. If you have been trying to contact me, nothing has arrived.

As far as Stan Bray’s book is concerned, I am most dissapointed with it. Apparently the publishers only allowed a certain number of pages and just deleted what they felt like.

I’m not familiar with this forum – is it possible to download drawings and/or articles? Perhaps the moderator can let me know.

Malcolm
12 May 2008 at 11:52 #13679
Graham V
Participant
@grahamv75988
Hello Malcolm,

Many thanks for the above posting.

Hopefully, I have managed to contact you via. this site’s messaging system, by clicking on the "message member" icon at the end of your posting. If this hasn’t worked please let me know.

Regards,

Graham
13 May 2008 at 14:45 #13692
Malcolm BEAK
Participant
@malcolmbeak51569
Hi Graham

Yes your message has got through, but try contacting me direct at [email protected] I am away today, and for the next few days, and my access to the internet may not be too reliable, so please bear with me for a while.

Regards Malcolm
9 June 2008 at 00:20 #14122
Jose Rocha
Participant
@joserocha19831
Hello all,

I am interested now in the construction of a very simple steam plant know as water pulse-jet motor, or the famous, old toy named "Pop-Pop". In the past two years, I have made two samples with no good results. Perhaps, someone could tell me something about this steam motor?

Regards,

Jose Rocha.
9 June 2008 at 14:18 #14126
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Jose

Try this link http://www.sciencetoymaker.org/boat/makeBoat4_07.htm these instructions are easy to follow and should result in a nice little engine.

Paul
11 June 2008 at 12:48 #14167
Graham V
Participant
@grahamv75988
Hi Jose,

A simpler version made from a coil of copper tube can be found at –
http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/pop-pop/buildpop.htm along with a boat to put it in!

I have been playing with these on and off for over 50 tears and tend to think that the "diagphragm" type perform better although they do not last as long.. No doubt someone will proove me wrong!

Another alternative, unless you particularly want to make one, is to buy an Indian made boat as I did on eBay about a year ago for less than £1 (diaphragm type) and adapt the engine for your own needs.

Either way, I would be interested in learning how you get on..

Regards,

Graham
11 June 2008 at 22:05 #14187
Geoff Yarham
Participant
@geoffyarham31662
Unfortunatly mistakes on plans are quite common. Having built a diagonal paddle engine by E .Westbury in wich bolts coinsided with one another, and it would not run when finished. I have studyed Stan Bray’s and Tubal Cain’s books and found a lot of usefull information. Useing their ideas I built my own twin double acting osilator. Half inch bore one inch stroke runs well on only 20 lb psi. destined for a paddle steamer soon.
22 June 2008 at 22:27 #14322
Jose Rocha
Participant
@joserocha19831
Hi Grahan V,

t

Tank very much by the info. I have dowloaded it soon, and start the study of the plans/instructions.

Appears to be a very serious task to construct this type of motor, in order to do a good one. My previous experience indicate that is needed a good hull design, in order to get better overall efficience from this type of motor.

So, I start to design a flat botton hull about 10" (25 to 27 cm) water line, as test platform, using no more than saved tinplate cans and soft tin solder.

You have stated that the diaphragm type performs better. Well, no doubts this is true, but this type of construction don’t lacks the extreme simplicity of the motor?

Excuse-me the delay to answer, but I have little time available to open my own machine.

Please let me know more on your experience with this motor.

Best regards

Jose Rocha.
8 August 2008 at 17:43 #15164
Gerald Gardiner 1
Participant
@geraldgardiner1
Re the Pop Pops, I have tried making the diaphragm type with little success. The copper coil type are very easy to make and usually work well (Our Scout troop made 14 of them a few years back when I was a leader).

Regards,

Gerald
9 August 2008 at 08:11 #15177
Eddie Price 1
Participant
@eddieprice1
I have Stan Bray’s and Tubal Cain’s books, but I tend to use them for ideas and then design my own engines, usually twin oscillators. I must admit I have never tried to copy one of their design exactly so have not noted the errors, but it must be very annoying to have followed their instructions only to find the parts don’t fit.

I have been looking for a simple slide valve engine for some time and note above that Malcolm Beak has a design for one. Malcolm, you may have noted in a thread on Madelboatsmayhem that I am also interested in gas regulators. If you read this would there be any chance of you being able to send me details of your slide valve engine?

I am currently building a steam plant for a Clyde Puffer.

Eddie Price
9 August 2008 at 08:43 #15178
Malcolm BEAK
Participant
@malcolmbeak51569
Eddie

Of course I can send you details of the slide valve engine. You will probably have noticed that some of the details have been left out in Stan Bray’s book. The publishers fault I hasten to add. I also have some designs for gas and water level control systems. You can PM me through Modelboat mayhem, or if you are in the Uk, give me a ring on 01923 672341. I like talking much moer than writing!

Malcolm
10 August 2008 at 03:35 #15188
Carl Hodgkinson
Participant
@carlhodgkinson60961
Hi all

I am building my first ever model boat which is the SL Swift steam launch which is being scratch built from plans purchased from My Hobbystore. Could any one recommend a set of plans for a steam oscillating engine to power the craft when finished ,any advice gratefully received .

Carl
10 August 2008 at 10:02 #15196
Eddie Price 1
Participant
@eddieprice1
Hi Carl. This is the twin oscillator that I have built for my Clyde Puffer:

It is my own design based on information gleaned from Tubal Cain, Stan Bray and photographs of commercial designs.

It has a 10 mm bore and a 12 mm stroke. I do have a set of drawings but I could not guarantee them since I tend to change things as I progress and I don’t always record the changes. You could try this site http://www.john-tom.com/html/ElmersEngines.html. Again I have used info from here in designing my engines.

You obviously need a lathe and preferably a small milling machine. I find the engine is the easiest bit. It is the boiler that presents the problems for me. It is always a challenge trying to produce enough heat to braze the various parts of the boiler together. I am getting better at it, but it has been fraught with difficulties. This is my latest boiler:

It is 75 mm diam and 90 mm long, and is based on a design from Model Boats.

If you are still keen on building your own steam plant, then I would be pleased to help.

Eddie Price
11 August 2008 at 00:24 #15209
Carl Hodgkinson
Participant
@carlhodgkinson60961
Eddie

Thanks for the reply and the photo of the engine .I have Stan Bray’s book and like you I will use that as a guide and work from my own drawings,I will let you know how the build progresses . On your engine I see you have a reversing lever will you use this to control the throttle on the engine or have a seperate steam control?.

Carl
11 August 2008 at 09:00 #15213
Eddie Price 1
Participant
@eddieprice1
Carl

No, I haven’t tried a throtle control. I don’t know if it is really necessary since steam engines are fairly slow anyway, a few hundred revs per min. That just reminds me, there are details of an engine and launch in Model Boats, some years back, (I have just checked and it was published in 1983 – The Mirander, the plans for which are available from myhobbystore.com. The plan identification is MM1348 and the matching engine is MM1349. I tried to build the engine but was not successful – it was my first attempt, and I could not get the parts to align. There is what looks to be a better design of engine on the same site – MM1371) But the point was that there was no throttle control, and the author simply suggested that this could be achieved with careful movement of the stop/forward/reverse lever from the stop position to fully open.

Eddie
25 August 2008 at 15:45 #15395
Geoff Yarham
Participant
@geoffyarham31662
Eddie

Yes a reversing control can also control the speed.
27 September 2008 at 16:37 #16110
Trevor Lloydlee
Participant
@trevorlloydlee64722
Greetings to members on this interesting thread.

Eddie, your twin cylinder oscillating engine is superb. Well done.

This year I started into model engineering and the current project is a RC controlled steam powered Clyde Puffer using the Clochlight drawing MM1310, by A G Cousins. This is a very complete seven sheet drawing leaving nothing out. However, I have to "Learn to walk before I can run", so am starting with simpler things.

So far I have put together my workshop with a unimat SL lathe / mill and almost finished a small single cyl single acting oscillator to get me into the swing of things. Haven’t ventured into boilermaking yet.

I too have some of Stam Brays books and noticed many errors. My gut feeling is that these errors might be the result of sloppy work by the Publisher’s illustrator, because the drawings are often different to the Author’s text discription of what is required.

I also have two of Tubal Cains books and find that with his designs, some times individual items are more complicated than they need to be.

I am interested in compairing notes and ideas on this group or direct by email.

Trevor
30 September 2008 at 14:39 #16177
Eddie Price 1
Participant
@eddieprice1
Hi Trevor

Like you I have a small lathe, a 7×10, and a small mill, both of Far Eastern origin.

I am still working on a burner for the boiler. My first attempt just did not produce enough heat. I eventually used the blow lamp that I normally use for plumbing jobs! That really got things going, so I am now trying to design a blow lamp type burner.

I am currently building a water feed pump because my boiler is quite small and would quickly run out of water. There is an electrode set into the boiler to detect the water level and I have built an electronic circuit based on Brian Greeves’ article in MB August 2007 "Automatic Boiler Pump Control Unit" but with some modifications to allow the motor to run for a pre-set time after it is switched ON. I will add the circuit too my gallery some time.

Steam engines make interesting projects, but sometime I want to make a slide-valve engine. They are more elegant than the simple oscillator.

This forum is a usefull way of keeping in touch and passing on ideas.

Best regards

Eddie
30 September 2008 at 16:44 #16180
Trevor Lloydlee
Participant
@trevorlloydlee64722
Geoff,

On 25 / 08/ 08 your wrote, regarding oscillating steam engines, "Yes, a reversing control can also control speed"

I’m pleased to know this because I hope to use this method also, but have not yet got that far in my project to be able to try it.

My gut feeling is that this technique is primarally a reversing devise and that the amount of travel of the control lever to vary the speed is probably a very small amount near each end of its arc of full movement .

This might make speed control by a radio controled servo a bit "iffy".

Do you, (or any other reader), have any experience of doing this ? Please tell.

Trevor
1 October 2008 at 10:09 #16190
Eddie Price 1
Participant
@eddieprice1
Trevor

Yes it is a bit ‘iffy’. I built the Mirander steam launch and the author suggested that this form of speed control could be used, but I didn’t find it very controllable. I think you would need a motor controlled taper shut-off valve

Eddie
1 October 2008 at 19:48 #16206
Geoff Yarham
Participant
@geoffyarham31662
Trevor, most engines sold have the reversing control only. I have sailed a Paddle Steamer for 6 years and find it most satisfactory. I had to use a retract servo from a model spitfire I built in 1970 to over come the resistance of the strong spring and to get the travel required. The servo is a standard size with an extra layer of gears on top, so is very slow this could be the reson for my sucsses. The valve is ease to make with out a mill, just chain drill and file right through the required thikness of metal then silver solder to a thin plate. cut the plate leaving a arm for the leaver. I will try to post a photo of engin and model soon.

GEOFF
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