What’s the foresail on a cutter-rigged ketch called?

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What’s the foresail on a cutter-rigged ketch called?

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  • #96126
    gecon
    Participant
      @gecon

      Hi, The Colin Archer is a cutter-rigged ketch.

      The foremost sail (Jib?) is called a 'Klyver' in Norwegian. 'Klyver' translates (more or less) to 'cutter'.

      What's it called in English? Cutter sail? or is this also the Jib, being the foremost sail?

      George

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      #4746
      gecon
      Participant
        @gecon
        #96127
        Richard Simpson
        Participant
          @richardsimpson88330

          Isn't a sail attached to a mast stay called a Staysail?

          #96128
          gecon
          Participant
            @gecon

            No, it's forward of the staysail The forestay of the 'cutter' sail is attached to the end of a looong boom (bowsprit).

            George

            #96132
            Richard Simpson
            Participant
              @richardsimpson88330

              A bit heavy going but you might find this an interesting read

              Link

              #96133
              gecon
              Participant
                @gecon

                Not very heavy going Richard, but I still did not find out if there is a specific name for the foremost sail on a cutter rigged yacht.

                I think I'll just refer to the sails as the foresail and the inner foresail or staysail.

                The whole question arose in my grey cell when I wanted to explain to which sail the Graupner 6-turn winch (pictured in my Colin Archer blog) was to be connected. I will simply refer to it as the foresail or jib. The one aft of it will be 'the staysail'. I expect I'll hear about it if I've got it all wrongfistlaugh

                Many thanks Richard,

                George

                Edited By gecon on 14/06/2021 14:50:05

                #96134
                Ray Wood 3
                Participant
                  @raywood3

                  Hi All,

                  How about Headsail ?? I think you can have more than one ??

                  The Colin Archer I had for a while had a self tacking Foresail/Jib on a horse

                  Regards Ray

                  Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 14/06/2021 14:50:29

                  #96135
                  gecon
                  Participant
                    @gecon

                    It' deffinately a headsail, but how do I differentiate between the two headsails?

                    My 'inner foresail/ staysaill' will be self-tack' on a horse. The foresail on the bowspit will be controlled by a winch.

                    George

                    Edited By gecon on 14/06/2021 14:55:23

                    #96136
                    Malcolm Frary
                    Participant
                      @malcolmfrary95515

                      Spotted on https://www.sailboat-cruising.com/cutter-rig-sailboat.html – it "might" be what the writer on there referred to as a "Yankee". This might mean that that particular sail has different names in every area where it is used.

                      #96140
                      gecon
                      Participant
                        @gecon

                        Hi Malcolm, I think a 'Yankee' sail is simply a 'high cut' jib. The foot of the sail is higher up from the foredeck which helps to prevent it from 'catching' high seas coming over the bow. Many sailors choose a high cut genoa, this gives better visability forwards and also helps to keep the sail out og the 'og'.

                        The foresail attached to the end of the bowspit of the Colin Archer certainly has a 'yankee' shape to it.

                        Given that the Norwegians call it a 'Klyver', (pronounced "kloover&quot I thought that there would be a known English name for this particular sail.

                        It's really not very important, and I'm allmost sorry that I posted the question. sad

                        George

                        Edited By gecon on 15/06/2021 06:59:42

                        #96142
                        gecon
                        Participant
                          @gecon

                          I've decided to call it the 'cleaver' sail. (cleever). It's at the 'sharp' end of the yacht and 'cleaves/cuts' the air.

                          I have also decided to 'go away' on this one and leave everyone in peace.smiley I've got more servos to fit. The one that controls the 'sail' below the surface called the RUDDER….or is it TILLER?…I don't want to knowwink

                          Cheers,

                          George

                          #96143
                          Richard Simpson
                          Participant
                            @richardsimpson88330
                            Posted by gecon on 15/06/2021 07:26:23:

                            I've decided to call it the 'cleaver' sail. (cleever). It's at the 'sharp' end of the yacht and 'cleaves/cuts' the air.

                            I have also decided to 'go away' on this one and leave everyone in peace.smiley I've got more servos to fit. The one that controls the 'sail' below the surface called the RUDDER….or is it TILLER?…I don't want to knowwink

                            Cheers,

                            George

                            Now here I am on slightly firmer ground! A rudder and a tiller are two completely different things!

                            #96146
                            gecon
                            Participant
                              @gecon

                              Is the tiller the the name given to the whole unit?

                              Or is it just the bit you hold on to while moving the 'rudder'? Is the bit in the water always refered to as the 'rudder'?

                              Some rudders are operated by a 'wheel' and some by a 'tiller' ?

                              The Colin Archer has a 'tiller'…and a 'rudder', maybe?

                              Here we go again. From one end of the yacht to the otherlaugh

                              George

                              #96147
                              Richard Simpson
                              Participant
                                @richardsimpson88330

                                The rudder assembly is only the flat blade with its bearings and rudder stock that directs the vessel. In the absence of any form of mechanical steering gear the tiller is only the manual arm, attached to the rudder stock that is used to direct the rudder.

                                The wheel operates what ever form of steering mechanism is being used to move the rudder, which could be nothing more than ropes around pulleys or right up to hydraulic vane steering gears.

                                By the time you have finished the Colin Archer you are going to know a lot more about the names of the parts of her!

                                By the way if a ship is named with a male name is it referred to as a 'She' or a 'He'?

                                #96150
                                Peter Vinton
                                Participant
                                  @petervinton69315

                                  The staysail is the innermost foresail which tacks down to the bow. All the fore sails tacked to the bowsprit are called jibs. There are usually several different sized jibs, No.1, No 2 etc. A high cut jib is called a Yankee.

                                  #96151
                                  Tim Rowe
                                  Participant
                                    @timrowe83142

                                    Yes Richard. Convention has it that all vessels, regardless of gender are referred to as she. A number of reasons have been hypothesised most of which would get me thrown off the forum if I were to elaborate. I don't use the convention when I am writing survey reports.

                                    Peter is on the money but just to further complicate a simple question:

                                    On a cutter, the Americans call the sail in front of the staysail a Yankee regardless of its cut.

                                    If there is no bowsprit the inner headsail is called the staysail and is usually associated with an inner forestay. The forward sail set on a stay going to the stem head fitting is a jib if it does not overlap the mast and a genoa if is does.

                                    George is one of the few modellers I have seen using a genoa on a model yacht.

                                    Tim R

                                    #96152
                                    Colin Bishop
                                    Moderator
                                      @colinbishop34627

                                      With regard to gender, some nations wil refer to a ship as he, Germany for example.refrerred to the battlecriuiser Derfflinger as the Iron Dog.

                                      Colin

                                      #96155
                                      gecon
                                      Participant
                                        @gecon

                                        I'll some up then by first thanking all for their enthusiasm and conclude thus:

                                        The Colin Archer has a rudder which operated manually via a tiller.

                                        There are indeed a lot of new words popping up during construction. There's already two horses on deck. A cats's head each side of the bowsprit. Dead-eyes all over the place. Probably some 'pig-iron' somewhere too. A bit like Animal Farm really.

                                        We'll settle for a 'jib' up front. It's not particularily high cut as the foot more or less parallels the foot of the staysail.

                                        As for gender…..Colin Archer had Scottish ancestry. The men there dance around in skirts during celebrations so that settles that one.

                                        As for Colin Bishop's Iron Dog….don't want any mention of dogs due to the afformentioned 'cat's heads in the bowslaugh

                                        Cheers!,

                                        George

                                        #97002
                                        gecon
                                        Participant
                                          @gecon

                                          Didn't intend to drag out this subject any more but……Found a ship's rigging drawing on "Modeller's Central" -while looking for info' on something else.

                                          All the stays are shown -on a diagram of a 3-masted something-or-other….a barkantine?

                                          The unstayed sail attached to the end of the bowsrit is a "Flying Jib" !! ideasmiley It runs from the end of the bowsprit to ca. 2/3rds up the main mast. Or, in the case of the Colin Archer, about 7/8ths up to the top of the -rather short- mainmast.

                                          George

                                          #97385
                                          Jonathan Kinghorn
                                          Participant
                                            @jonathankinghorn16230

                                            Forestaysail, Fore for short. As has been noted, sails rigged to a bowsprit are Jibs. A cutter would set one jib only, but would carry several in graduated sizes to set as conditions warranted (it wasn't safe to reef a sail on a bowsprit.)

                                            On an identical vessel with just one headsail (a combination of a cutter's jib and fore sails) it would be termed the Foresail, and the vessel would be Sloop, not a Cutter.

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