Zumwalt class destroyer

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

What about this new wonder material, Paul?

Carbon Fibre etc………..Is it applied similar to FIbre Glass and are there any toxic fumes involved?

How thick is it and what about the weight etc

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Bob. Carbon fibre is probably beyond the realms of home use, and unnecessary too. It is applied as a single sheet for strength, and there is consequently a lot of wastage. Large parts..aircraft wings etc I believe are vacuum cured in big moulds.

Styrene vacuum forming would be one way to high-tech this ship, and the resultant hull would be very light and stiff but any hull mods in the light of trials would be a bit difficult to do, and then theres the making of such a large mould (in solid).

Given the age and fragility of the model launching method, I would suggest no more monsters. 4 foot seems to me to be a workable size, and modelling ply comes in handy 4 foot lengths (now theres a coincidence!)​

As to the digging in of the bow, my HMS Midge has a curiously similar hull design. The bottom is flat, the bow is chisel, and there is a long cut-up at the stern. On starting off, there is a bit of a bow wave (and there would be NONE with a bulb fitted), and then the faster it gets the more the stern sinks and the nose rises. Obviously I go much too fast and the nose lifts out the water, and the hull is proportionally wider, giving more lift, and so with a lower speed, a bulb, and a finer entry I think that the hull should perform as per the published photos…??

Ashley

 

 

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Many thanks, Ashley Ashley

We'll have to see, regarding the Carbon Fibte……Paul has got easy access to a source!

Don't fancy making a mould, but if it can be used for other members use, it could be a possibility?

We could produce mouldings for resale…..eh?………For a 4 foot model

It's all in the melting pot at the moment

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Vacuum forming; I have had thoughts in this direction , and later on you will see why but my conclusion is no one would pay a reasonable price for such an item, from an amateur. No doubt if Deans or someone produced a hull, chaps would pay £200 pounds or whatever for it, but from a.n.other??? or am I being cynical.

The other issue is getting more than one hull/moulding off your master..The master would have to be solid wood to stand up to repeated mouldings, with all that heat and suction going on, and every hull would have to be 100% good to sell.

Making a mould to produce a fibreglass hull would stand a better chance, as you could make one or two or three easily enough for sale if there was any demand. .

Ashley

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Dragon Models offer a plastic kit of a Zumwalt. Could be worth building for information and up-scaling for your planned next build.

**LINK**

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

That is one ugly ship! I thought the attraction of warship models was the amount of fine detail you can incorporate. That thing has hardly any on show.

From my own experiences in the model business;
Carbon fibre would be ridiculously expensive and unnecessary for a four-foot model boat hull. Check the price of a basic starter kit here NB You also need a large oven and a mould which will stand the pressure and temperatures involved. **LINK**

Vac-forming anything that big would be difficult, require a very large machine with a lot of heat and very thick material – and probably an aluminium or other cast-metal tool. Expensive again.

GRP is the logical method for reproducing several hulls. With that shape you might get away with moulding just the part below the waterline and using flat sheet material for the sides above it. That way you could possibly use a one-piece mould.

Whichever happens (if any) I won't be in the queue for one.

DM

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

As Bob said I have access to some very exotic materials, Titanium, a type of Carbon Fibre that doesn't need vac forming or baking and Graphene.

I am itching to play with this stuff and this Zumwalt has the right kind of shape for the easy application of these materials.

No need for moulds or expensive equipment as the Carbon Fibre is applied directly to the frames / hull in the same way as glassfibre is applied.

The pleasure in this model isn't the fine detail of its superstructure, as it hasn't got any, the pleasure for me is designing a 6ft model that splits into three separate components for transport but is light enough to be carried fully built to the lake side in one hand. This model will involve lightweight materials and a weight reducing design, model aircraft weight RC equipment, motors and batteries and pumped ballast tanks.

Comments are invited.

Paul

 

 

Edited By Paul T on 18/12/2015 11:13:05

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul

Having seen the complex shape of the hull section

How will the hull be constructed?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Design Office to Shop Floor

Don't know yet…. I've not looked at the details as I haven't received any firm instructions but I presume it will be skin on frame.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul

I`ve been mulling this idea over…….

To attract the Kevins, we ought to abandon the fancy stuff and resort to the good old woodie stuff

I think the 5 foot version may not be out of the question……It`s only about 9" wide

If Glynn Guest designed this model…..It would have a flat bottom and made from Balsa!

That`s not a bad idea?

Let us now wait a while and ponder the response?

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Will it have wheels on the back?

Colin

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

If Paul calls for wheels………………………Yes!

Just looking at a report on the Zumwalt and rumour has it that the ship is unstable!

I`m not surprised, looking at the size of the superstructure?

What about the strange name?………..ZUMWALT……..It means Forest in German?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

Perhaps exotic materials is what we need to attract the Kevins, besides the main part of frame will be liteply the fancy stuff is just to add strength without adding weight.

No flat bottom, if we are going to do this then we are going to do it right and build it properly which also means no wheels on the back.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Where will Kevin get the exotic gear from?

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The ship is named after Admiral Elmo Zumwalt Bob.

Colin

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you, Colin

The name doesn`t ring Abell……….Who was he?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Where will Kevin get the exotic gear from?

Anne Summers

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Didn`t know we were into frock making?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

A little research for you Admiral Elmo Zumwalt **LINK** and Anne Summers **LINK**

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Very witty…..Sauce Pot!

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Although I know sir capt`n designer likes to get a design as authentic as possible, I can see that there may well be some stability issues with such a top-heavy vessel, and probably even worse with any sort of wind blowing.

Could there be a case here for making the hull a bit deeper than it should be in order to mitigate such issues?? I would hate to see that the design (at the end of the day) needs something as horrid as a keel to keep it upright in a breeze?? (just a thought)

​For a large vessel as contemplated (6 foot) is there any need to fit exotic radio/ running gear? there will have to be quite a lot of weight somewhere or other.

Would a 4 foot vessel be more attractive to the general boatbuilding population rather than a whopper?

Ashley

questions comments as requested.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Ash……I've already had a top secret technical discussion with Herr Kapitan, this morning, but he has already poo poohed the deep hull suggestion plus a dozen more!

He's locked in a concrete bunker, somewhere in Cheshire, at the moment, filling up the waste bin with good ideas

I've already suggested the famous GE keel……Zilsch response

No decision on model size

Waiting for public opinion, before we jump in

How has the full size craft sorted the unstable problem?

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Cap`n Bob. I knew he would poo poo that suggestion. The stability question on the real thing is rumour and also due to past suspicions over tumblehome hulls. They have built a large natty something-or-other scale steel ship and are satisfied with this, so…
Regarding Zumwalt, have a quick google.

I appear to be unable to paste, or even put any album photos on my posts now, and the shif/tab thing to get to the next line is very annoying.

Ashley (example of being unable to insert image below)

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[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Ashley / Bob

I don't want to compromise on design just for someone to mock the end result. I can design out any problems apparent or otherwise.

Ashley you didn't compromise on the Caspian Sea Monster and Bob you didn't compromise on the Lady Joyce

If we are to build Zumwalt then I intend to design it to the best of my ability and produce drawings that any first time builder can follow.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

We are only thinking out loud, Paul

Have decided on the size yet?

Bob

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