Vintage Gentleman’s Cruiser

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Chuckie

The extended skeg keel is a good idea especially on such a large model. Balanced rudders would be an interesting addition.

Mother Goose

Kim Is the fox chasing the goose………is this code or a metaphor

Edited By Paul T on 28/12/2014 13:55:52

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Would not the boat have balanced rudders anyway?? by this I am assuming it is meant the rudder post is behind the leading edge and not ON it as per a sailing ship??

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I`ve never known this forum to be so inactive!

I`m the first person to post since 3.30 am yesterday………..Are we losing interest, chaps?

Not to worry…….Onwards and upwards, so they say

Work in progress………Sorting out the prop tube alignment and the rudders……Great fun and very interesting

The cross pieces are for setup purposes and will be removed later

The tube supports are tall and can be used to rest the hull on the bench and will also protect the props…… The stand is not required now

They will also be used for rudder supports

What do you think of it, Paul?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

The propeller shaft / rudder support look ideal but the design does leave an awkward gap between the hull and tube

The rudders look great with the large surface area and should provide plenty of turn even at low speed.

As for the inactivity………perhaps people have better things to do………… but it does make you wonder what would happen if the few key members stopped posting, would Kevin care?

I doubt it

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Paul

As a matter of fact, I did take the supports all the way back originally and covered the tube completely, but it looked very bulky

Luckily, it`s out of sight normally

Is it possible that the forum could close down, due to lack of support?……….Hope not!

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Bob

I understand what you mean about the piece being bulky if extended to cover the tube, would you consider filling the gap with P38 and blending it into the tube.

Its always possible that the forum could close due to lack of support as there is only so much that the current contributors can do.

It sometimes narks me that the only time we see some of the readership is when Colin gives competition prizes out.

I just wish the watchers and lurkers would realise that their inactivity has consequences and get involved before the forum either gets closed down or dies from lack of interest.

But don't worry as if it does close I would start another one so our online builds and chats can continue.

Paul

[CookieOldParticipant @cookieold]

Paul&Bob , Please don,t think about the forum being closed down , I visit it every day bar none , I only comment when i think i have something i have something to say which will help someone. I will in future try and contribute more to help with the dialog , It would be a very SAD DAY this ends .

Best Regards Dave

[Mark Jarvis 2Participant @markjarvis2]

HI All

I second what you are saying, use it or lose it, The Tug Forum looks to have gone down the tubes, taking a lot of information with it.

If you dont join in whats the point of being here.

Mark

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Paul & Bob As Dave says I visit the forum every day and comment as and when I have something useful to say .

It will become obvious in the new year as developments are moving forwards. 2 projects are in hand and will be disclosed soon .

I have wondered how many folk out there could add comments and are not sure how their comments would be received .I don,t profess to know how to get more input but if you are reading this come back and have your say your piece pleaseMichael

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

It helps me sleep.

DM

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Bob. Its just after christmas, chaps are away and so there is not much posting going on.Nothing more sinister.

besides which, if you were to notice the lack of posts on "todays boating", no one bothers to sail their boats either!

Dont like the prop shaft supports. All that turbulence destroying good water flow!!! would sooner see just a wide normal plate skeg possibly exptended upwards if you want to protect the porps and so on. (personal opinion)

DM.  Ho Ho Ho

Ashley

 

 

Edited By ashley needham on 30/12/2014 08:21:09

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I don`t like them either, Ashley…………..Back to the drawing…..eh?

The problem is caused by the shallow stern…..ie….No rudder support……..Similar to Brutus

Got an idea………Small removable stand at the rear only……..(No room in the car for the big stand)

Now the prop supports needn`t be so strong

Bob

Edited By Bob Abell on 30/12/2014 08:38:11

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

How about a good old vintage "wire" approach??? would look very period suiting the boat and also lending a period feel to the build. You know what I mean, noit exactly coathanger wire, but something, looping from the end of the rudder posts over the props??

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Ashley

Have you got a picture of the good old vintage wire approach?…..Or a few more words?

I could easily invent a brass wire contraption, but would prefer something historical

No frost up here this morning!

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I quite like the tube supports, they serve a double purpose and have a stylish shape.

They might look bulky but don't forget that this is a big boat and these parts will provide excellent protection for the props and rear half of the hull.

As for the future of the web site I think that, given the current state of affairs, its closure is entirely predictable and, unless dramatic changes take place, totally inevitable.

To me DMs tongue in cheek comment sums it up……………..it is boring and despite the best efforts of a few members it will continue to decline unless more members take part.  

I can appreciate why MTM keep the site going but the overhead cost must far outweigh the financial returns and at some point fiscal prudence will come into play.

Sad but entirely predictable.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 30/12/2014 12:46:17

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

As Ashley quite rightly points out, it is the Christmas period and many of us are diverted by family activities and commitments plus a tendency to general laziness. Other Forums I look at are also very quiet at this time of year.

Not sure what you mean by dramatic changes Paul – the mind boggles….

Colin

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Sorry for following Paul T a little off-topic but I think it's worth a comment. It is, after all, his thread!

Given that MTM are keen to increase their on-line presence then there will always be a website of one sort or another. The cost of this is defrayed to an extent by the advertisers. I wonder how much extra the hosting cost is in bolting the forum software onto that? The other cost is, of course, our revered Forum Editor/Moderator Colin B. We are not privy to the details of his remuneration package, save to say that a penny to Admiral Bishop is still a significant amount!

I believe that the existence of the forum depends mainly on whether or not the Editor of the magazine (Paul Freshney) feels that it is still appropriate. The fact that there are relatively few members regularly contributing isn't particularly worrying. After all, how many people regularly contribute to the magazine compared with how many buy it? There are other forums (fora?) where the number of contributions is markedly higher but when you've sorted the wheat from the chaff there's no more 'real' content than there is here – quite possibly less.

Dave M

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Paul. I think you are SAD and need roasting in some sunlight.

Colin is very cheap to run and so the overheads of the forum are entiely manageable .

Bob; will try to find something historic in the way of wire stays. Possibly Bowman Aeroboat style, surf on that although nbot quite what I had in mind but something along this line.

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Whilst I agree that a certain lack of enthusiasm is due to the Christmas effect it still doesn't account for the general malaise that has been overtaking the forum for the past 18 months.

An on line market presence is essential for a publishing company but the only ways that I can see MTM increasing their on line market share is to seriously adopt the modern love affair with interactive platforms such as social media and YouTube and even offering 'live' links to suppliers (advertisers) where customers questions can be answered in real time via Skype.

In its present format the website and forum are nothing more than an expensive foible that the company must be finding increasingly difficult to justify.

I just see the inevitability of a failure that will happen without firm direction and an injection of new ideas, at the moment the website and forum are increasingly becoming dinosaurs.

Don't get me wrong I think that both Paul and Colin do their very best with the limited resources that are available, and personally I think Colin does a great job for what is essentially a highly underpaid and thankless task.

If these comments don't bring the lurkers out to express their thoughts then nothing will.

 

Edited By Paul T on 30/12/2014 13:43:30

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

If Paul likes the tube supports……That`s good enough for me!

I think we can afford some inefficiency as the benefits are worthwhile, but I will streamline them some more

They are not glued down at the moment, but we can see better when the rudders are in situ

As for forum participation, I would have thought the holiday period would be the ideal time for reading the post

All we need at the moment, are a few more comments

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul, you seem to be making a lot of rather unfounded assumptions above which may reflect your views but not the ongoing business plans of MTM to which you are not privy and to which I only have limited information myself.

You talk of 'market share'. There are only two national model boating magazines and one outsells the other by around two to one so market share as such isn't really an issue and Model Boats is doing fine at the moment as far as financial forecasts are concerned including the cost of managing the Forum and Website editing for which I am expected to average just one hour a day although I actually spend more time on line by my own choice. So there are no immediate financial pressures on the forum as such although policy could certainly change at any time should the company so decree, after all, our main competitor doesn't offer a forum facility.

Of course total market volume is a different thing altogether. magazines generally are in a state of 'managed decline' as people turn to other media alternatives (and probably standards of literacy continue to deteriorate!). As far as model boating is concerned, it is all very well to try to 'grow' the market but the truth is that model boating itself is also in severe decline as a look at the attendees of any show demonstrate only too graphically. A recent commercial survey indicated that the average age of model boaters in the UK is 65+ and that is exactly what we see around the country, in clubs and at shows. Tempus inevitably Fugits and more people are dropping out of the hobby than are entering it since the upcoming generation have many more choices with which to exercise their free time and spending several months building a model at a time when an increasing proportion of the population are unable even to carry out basic DiY tasks becomes a less and less attractive option. These days, when people want something, they generally want it now, not several months down the line after having to acquire and grapple with an unfamiliar skill set.

Times change and there is little mileage in making a lot of effort to generate and attract an audience that doesn't exist when you are competing with more attractive alternatives. Those people who are in the hobby and those who do come aboard as new modellers can still look forward to a number of years of enjoying it, as many as they want really but model boating will never again become the mainstream leisure activity it once was just as no one now codes computer games in Basic for their Sinclair Spectrums, Ataris and Commodore 64s. It will become a niche interest insofar as it isn't already, but still capable of giving much enjoyment to those who stick with it.

No doubt the situation will eventually stabilise to some extent as there will always be some interest in making things but it will be at a far lower level than even we have at the moment.. MPBA membership is probably a tenth of what it once was in its heyday which gives some indication of the loss of interest in the hobby. How long it can continue to support two national magazines remains a moot point but one should certainly be able to carry on for a few years to come.

I don't really think that it is our job to provide 'live' links to advertiser websites when you can simply click on the advertiser's website link and access whatever online facilities they feel they can justify making available. Time is money for them too and long chats over Skype may not be altogether welcomed by someone who is trying to put a kit together for despatch!

Colin

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Colin, if Model Boats is "doing fine at the moment"……Then that`s all we need to hear!

Very encouraging news

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin

Yes these are purely my own views which I freely admit are based upon experiences gained in a totally different industry. By market share I meant the hobby market as a whole and not just the model boat section.

I agree with most of your comments about the interests of the upcoming generation but disagree with their not wishing to spend several months building a model. Having spent many hours talking to people at model shows I am constantly surprised at just how many are looking for a hobby and that they consider model boating to be the best investment for their time and money.

But I digress. I still maintain that without increased and active involvement this forum will either wither or have the plug pulled and that the solution to the dilemma lies with the decision makers.

Paul

I doubt that half a dozen people will bother to make any comment or reply to my statement

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

But the people who come to the shows come because they are already interested and want to find out more. It is the great majority who don't have that interest.

There is certainly interest from people who have recently retired and are looking for something to occupy themselves and I think that is where many of the new modellers come from but their numbers are insufficient to offset those who no longer make models.

As far as the hobby scene generally is concerned you may have more of a point but I think it varies. The model engineers I spoke to at the recent MEX reckon that model engineering is in an even worse state than model boating when it comes to demographics! Military modelling and Aeromodelling are probably in a rather better state.

In a sense the commercial side in the form of publishing, kit manufacturing and retail etc. is largely driven by demand and if the demand isn't there then it is very difficult to create it, unless you are Steve Jobs of course! Down on the coast near Worthing there is a branch of Hobbycraft which we regularly visit. There is lots of stock for artists and various forms of craft but the small modelling section is 85% plastic kits with a couple of shelves of rather overpriced wood and paints. This is a company with over 80 stores nationwide and they stock what sells.

Colin

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Let`s get back to the real world of model boat building

Latest work in progress to stimulate some light hearted banter

I like a sturdy rudder support

I also like the idea of the joining the columns together and a length of screwed rod and a few nuts will fit the bill nicely……..May be a good weed catcher though

A good coat of paint will also improve the appearance

Bob

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