Vintage Gentleman’s Cruiser

[lnvisiblemanParticipant @lnvisibleman]

Paul

My view is that it would be better as a single section.

Here is a rather specialist tool that will enable modellers to modify it into as many sections as required.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I would suggest two bits myself, as it will be well over 5 feet long in a transport box and probably outside the length that most saloon cars can manage. This would broaden the appeal of a larger vessel.

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

As Ashley has pointed out there is an obvious and very practical advantage to splitting the hull.

However for every advantage there is a downside and with splitting the hull there are two huge problems, the first one is the location of the major parts such as motors and propshafts and the second is how to disguise the split when the hull is put together.

Paul

[Martin Field 1Participant @martinfield1]

Split it??? Ghastly idea. I have a Nissan Micra. I could get it in there in one piece. I have two Marbleheads and a huge Victorian cutter. All will fit. Nothing looks worse than little thing bobbing about on a non scale sea. Build em big and pack 'em in, somehow. It's amazing what you can get in a little car. My Citroen AX, which the Nissan has just replaced, carried home for me an AO drawing board and adjustable frame with my Mrs. in the front. The tailgate only needed a couple of inches of gap. I also got half an Austin 7 Cambridge Special body in it, once again with the Mrs. Without her the boat question doesn't even happen<GG>

Cheers,

Martin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

There is also the question of getting the single hull model into the car and when safely arrived at the lake getting it out of the car and moved to the lakeside.
Not only is it large and unwieldy it will be heavy and easily damaged.

Edited By Paul T on 24/05/2014 07:41:56

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Suggestion box to Drawing Office

We`ve had the Ellie hull with numerous superstructures……Why not a have a hull split in two for transport…….With a choice of front sections of different lengths and different tops?

Crazy or what?

You could have a Tugboat and with a long front half……You could have an Oil Tanker!

Food for thought…..Let`s see what the readers come up with?

Bob de Vinci

[Charles OatesParticipant @charlesoates31738]

Hi paul, many years ago I built a tramp steamer with a split hull. The join was as good as I could make it and not too bad. However, whenever I sailed the model my eye was drawn to that join, even when it was some distance away I found myself looking to see if it was visible. The result was that I didn’t enjoy sailing it and soon passed it on.
The failing might be in me rather than the ship but you need to be sure that you don’t put all that effort into your pride and joy only you find yourself hateing the result. Lastly, getting a perfect blend of the lines at the join is a real b….er.
Fantastic choice to build though, I will enjoy following your progress. Good luck. Chas

[shipwrightParticipant @shipwright]

Hello Paul,

Is your design similar to "Vamoose" (model boats magazine Winter Special 2011) ?

Ian

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hiding the split is a real problem and unless there is a piece of hull structure or decorative line to mask the joint it will always show.

This is the designers first dilemma ….is the 5ft model designed for ease of transport or for decorative perfection.

Ian
In some ways it is similar to Vic Smeeds design but then most of this type look similar

Edited By Paul T on 24/05/2014 09:49:57

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I do rather feel that the sheer size will deter a lot of people from tackling the project.

One of the best known kit manufacturers once told me that a key criteria for his projects was that they should be able to fit across the back seat of a car, otherwise demand dropped right off.

It isn't just transportation that is the issue either. Many of us have limited working space. My workshop is partitioned off across the rear of the garage and anything over 50 inches long isn't really practical.

And for those of us whose knees are no longer what they were there is the question of weight!

Colin

[lnvisiblemanParticipant @lnvisibleman]

Paul

I am sure that you have already been here but just in case, . . . . .

http://www.hagginmuseum.org/stephens/

Mike

Edited By lnvisibleman on 24/05/2014 10:13:53

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

hello Paul whilst I don't often comment on builds I would like to say that the subject you have chosen is both attractive and interesting with plenty of scope for added refinements. However having some experience of large models I can say that whilst they look and behave well on the water they do pose limitations regarding build space , transport, launching and storage, as Colin wisely pointed out lifting a large model can have unexpected consequences . The idea that a model can fit comfortably into the boot space of the average family car is a very practical approach and worth considering when either designing or building that new model. Also modellers tend to take two even three models to the pond side for a sailing session so limitations on the size of the model become significant. . This is not a critique on your design only practical observations as to the size .

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Both Colin and Dave have quite rightly raised questions relating to limitations of space, either in the workshop or with transport and it is very true to say that these factors do play a large part in a persons choice of build, this being the case I would remind the readers that this model is being designed in two sizes and that the smaller 3ft version should be well within the build and transport capabilities of the average model builder.

All this being said we still have the question of how to build the 5ft version.

Mike
No I haven’t seen that site and thank you for posting the link.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The 3ft version should be a very nice size, not too big and manageable but still leaving scope for faithful internal and external detail. I have to say that at Brighton Modelworld, I have always admired the exhibition of dolls houses and this sort of modelling would be quite similar in many respects.

As has been said earlier Paul, don't make it too boxy, it's the combination of slight boxiness and curves that give these boats their charm.

Do you have to be a vintage gentleman to build one though – in which case I think many of us might qualify….

Colin

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul

You seem to have overlooked my idea regarding split boats

Bob

[lnvisiblemanParticipant @lnvisibleman]

Might I suggest that the smaller version be at 1/16 scale ? At least it is some kind of standard scale and would give a length of 41.25 inches which should fit into almost any car larger than a SMART.

As a matter of interest, has a car ever been more inappropriately named ?

[Martin Field 1Participant @martinfield1]

I'd go for the 1/16th option. Rather than transport problems with a five footer (for some) storage and weight could be an issue. 41 1/2" is a nice size.

Splitting is a terrible idea. You will always be worrying about appearance and waterproofing.

I had a Reliant Fox van and that gave me a 4 foot cube of space, so any "normal" modern saloon would take it.

I also always make a carry case for my models so damage isn't a problem. Just some 1×1 and 3 or 4mm ply with a slide out front in ally angle does the trick and weighs very little. You can keep all your radio gear and general "stuff" in them too.

Martin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear Bob de Vinci

How could I overlook one of your suggestions it would be like Pierre-François Bouchard not bothering to pick the stone up.

I have been giving your suggestion some serious thought and have concluded that owing to the location of the motors on the Ellie design having a split hull wouldn't work.

The idea does have merit though for a sectional multi function, semi displacement hull and interchangeable superstructures.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 24/05/2014 15:32:22

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

By introducing some diagonal rubbing strakes above the waterline it would be possible to mask a hull joint.

The strakes aren't by any means part of a traditional design but they do allow a split hull to be created.

What do the readers think?

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Nit Picker to Drawing Office

Going off the angle of dangle of the prop shaft, you'll have a job getting the motor in!…..lol

The joint looks tricky……How does it work, when one really gets down to it?

NP

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Paul a split hull is not an uncommon feature for large warship models especially carriers and solves many of the basic logistical problems yet there is no getting away from the fact that using this method there will be a joint but as you have illustrated this can be disguised . I've encountered the problem of making joints as invisible to the eye as possible using paint lines and natural breaks . Personally I avoid jointing the hull is this way but it can be done with some degree of success.

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

From the office of the chief designer to the office of the chief nit picker.

We have discussed this type of motor problem before and devised the following solution.

The joint isn't really that tricky it is simply good woodwork and encapsulated bolts.

Dave

I also use paint schemes to hide such joints, dazzle paint work for example is ideal for masking splits. Like you I don't like building hulls with joints but sometimes its unavoidable.

Paul

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Paul At the extreme end of the size scale is this 4m long cargo ship used at Ellesmere Port .it is divided into 3 sections and at a distance the joints are hard to see . Transport and ballasting for this model remains a logistical problem .

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Dave

I remember watching the large cargo ships during the event and trying to spot the joints.

The casters are an excellent idea for moving the sections in and out of the transport.

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear Watchers

Here are a few photos showing the progression of design from 1920 until 1932

At first glance they all look the same but upon closer inspection the first image of the 1920 vintage boat is very boxy and lacking some of the more graceful curves and lines of the 1932 version in the lower image.

 

Edited By Paul T on 24/05/2014 19:10:07

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