Transport Trolley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Gareth and Andy

You were not supposed to pick that up but I am oddly pleased that you follow my scribbling so avidly.

All I can say is this is the problem with arguing against Bob when I can only present limited information.(I drop the ball) and end up with egg on my face.

What I can say in my defence is that the lifting rig does rotate in relation to the base and the crane itself can be mounted on either side of the trolley depending upon the weight and size of the load.

Sorry for the cloak and dagger double talk but all will be revealed at the appropriate time.

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

A plan view showing lifting sequence for a 4ft+ boat

Head scratching is optional

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

It would be more understandable, if you showed the water's edge

And where the man stands

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Yes Bob it would be

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Bob

I'm no genius but I would hazard a guess – and I may have got it horribly wrong, here, Bob – but I reckon that, in the last little picture, the water is somewhere underneath the boat while the trolley remains firmly on the bank. That would place the water's edge somewhere in between. The man is standing at the end of the control wire with the controller in his hand (probably the left right hand). I've drawn a small "map" of this to help you. I'm sure Paul will tell me if I've got it wrong……

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 11/07/2015 09:57:05

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Dave

Yes that's exactly right and thank you for showing me as being super slim.

But now I have to figure out the wiring for all of these motors.

Paul

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

If you look very closely you'll see I've also given you blue eyes. Bob's your man for wiring up multiple motors. Just keep your grub-screws tight, dude.

DM

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul

I'm sure you realise…..All the weight is on the front pair of wheels?

Bob

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

All the weight is on the front pair of wheels?

Could you please explain exactly what you mean by this, Bob, as well as explaining why it should be significant? Us non-engineering Kevins are a bit slow on the uptake sometimes.

DM

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Because, the hub assemblies are so feeble, Paul had to fit three pairs!

Thinking erroneously, that all the weight would be shared!………Alas…….No

I did mention a solution, but Paul, pooh poohed the idea

Come in, Paul

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

The trolley davit is based upon mobile cranes, of which I have many years experience.

The body of the trolley acts as the counterweight for the load, the six wheels are sharing the load of the trolley and load (that's why I have specified six wheels instead of four) far from being feeble the hub assemblies are very strong as the shafts are constructed from 12mm chrome steel.

Your solution of outriggers wouldn't work as all that they would do is position the body further away from the water.

So the hubs are not feeble

The weight is correctly shared over all six wheel

Outrigger supports (jack legs) wont work.

Over to you Bob

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Sorry Paul

The front pair of wheels act as a pivot…..The other four wheels support nothing but fresh air!

Out riggers are your only answer

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

When a 50t mobile crane does a 'pick and carry' operation why doesn't it tip up?

**LINK**

Have a read about pick and carry and you will see what I mean.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you, Paul

I have no need to view the Pick and Carry cranes

Let us say no more about the matter and just wait and see the results of your labour?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear Kevin

I would like to explain that during this conversation Bob has been playing devils advocate by asking some very pertinent questions.

Bob has asked these questions in his usual down to earth manner and in doing so has demonstrated that I haven't provided sufficient technical details.

Its no good me saying that the design is correct if I haven't supplied drawings to support my claims so I will rectify this over the next few days

Thank you Bob

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you, Paul……Very gentlemanly of you

Paul has cleared up the situation by adding ballast at the rear of the trolley

"That was a near run thing!"…….As Wellington, once said

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

If the trolley has to be counterbalanced to compensate for the load then a significant weight of ballast must be carried on the trolley. One more thing to go in the car unless it's a water tank filled from the pond?

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Colin

You are correct about a significant weight especially with larger boats, I had considered using water as the counter weight but water doesn't have the required mass so I opted for lead acid batteries.

The batteries can be carried separately during transport and fitted into the trolley in the car park, the number of batteries needed depends upon the weight of the model being carried.

Paul

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Its no good me saying that the design is correct if I haven't supplied drawings to support my claims so I will rectify this over the next few days

I don't see why you should feel the need to, Paul. You are a qualified engineer with a lot of relevant experience and if you are satisfied that something is correct then I, for one, wouldn't argue with you – especially in such a truculent manner. Whether or not the trolley works in the way you intend it to (or overbalances etc) should depend on the decisions and calculations which you make – not on some snug-bar speculation offered by the usual suspect. In your position I would never invite public contributions to my design process; that way you end up doing at least twice as much work in getting to the same result.

Please yourself, m'duck – at least one person will be happy!

Dave M

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dave

I understand your comments and in my past life I wouldn't entertain any non-relevant questions and I would only seek council from people with equal experience and knowledge. In my profession I had to make tough decisions on a daily basis and couldn't / wouldn't have the time or feel the need to discuss these decisions with the tradesmen or labourers that worked on the site.

However when I started this boat design lark I had to take into account the fact that having little experience in designing model boats I didn't feel able to approach professional model boat designers such as yourself for advice and, due to medical problems, I am a slow builder so a build blog could be a slow and boring thread.

Bob came to my rescue when I asked for a builder who was willing to undertake a 'warts and all' build thread with one of my untested designs, there aren't many model builders who would be willing to risk their reputation in this way and for this I will be eternally grateful to Bob.

The partnership also included a requirement on Bobs behalf to ask awkward questions on behalf of the many Kevins that follow his builds.

Our arrangement has been quite successful through the Ellie and Brutus builds

I don't know what the future holds and I have no doubt that Bob and I will be chatting about it when we meet up at Haydock.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

As a Kevin, I have been following Bobs/Pauls builds and on the odd occaision asking the devils advocate questions as one must to keep them on their toes.

As there is no right or wrong way to make a trolley like this i have not added much input yet. It is of course up to the whims of the bulder as to whats suitable.

Ashley usual disclaimer

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

whims of the bulder ?

whims ?????

[CookieOldParticipant @cookieold]

Hi Paul , You and Bob are a credit to the world of model boat building and long may it continue ,i like reading your threads and 99% of the time i learn from them . Only when a part of the build is in my field ( Mechanical Engineering) do i have the confidence to comment and only if i think my comments will help the build.

Best regards Dave

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Cookie

We are all learning and we only advance by asking questions, I stand by the adage that there is no such thing as a silly question…even when its from Bob.. lol

I wish that more people would ask questions as they would receive a straight answer and wouldn't be treated like a fool.

I can say that without the banter my charity fundraising wouldn't have got off the ground.

Paul

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

There's nothing wrong with asking a question; that's what this forum is for. It's only a silly question if you've already asked it once and had a reply. Neither is there anything wrong with playing devil's advocate, Ashley – but there are ways of doing it which, thankfully, most people are aware of and abide by. The problems only arise when they don't.

Before they hit the Enter key to send their latest jibe on its way, there are certain folk who might bear in mind that there is a fine line between being 'forthright' and just downright rude. Show some respect and you'll have it shown to you.

Dave M

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