ss Miltiades 1903

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Thanks for the comments George. Yes, I had seen the Graham Farish figures. One of the problems, as you say.is that certain scales are quoted but maybe the average height of the ‘original’ people can vary. The ones I have ordered from China show a figure lying against a metric ruler which suggests that the height is OK but we will have to see. Painting is not too much of a problem as the ship is depicted as around 1905 and in wintry conditions the passengers would all be wrapped up in drab coloured overcoats. There is not much detail on them at that size and I just want a sprinkling of people around the decks to give scale to the model. The rest of the passengers are probably confined to their bunks as the ship battles the Agulhas Current off the Cape of Good Hope. Photo shows sister ship Marathon after lengthening doing something like this.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Colin

If the Chinese figures don’t work out OK have a look at “4D Model Shop” (https://modelshop.co.uk/Shop/Model-Detail/1-150-Scale/Item/1-150-figures-standing-Pk10/ITM5734) – apologies for the long url but that takes you right to the items.

They are standing figures in cast white metal £6.70 for a pack of 10.

4D Model Shop is well worth looking at for all sorts of model making supplies – just a satisfied customer of theirs!

Keith

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Thanks Keith,

I hadn’t seen these. If the Chinese figures are no good then I will investigate further.

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The Chinese figures have now arrived and seem much the same as the ones I have but with sufficient tall persons. They are also better painted. For the sitting figures I have  two sets of benches, one too large, the other a trifle too small. ‘N Gauge’ has much to answer for. I have now ordered some new benches which should split the difference. (hopefully).

Some of the benches are deeply recessed under the boat deck and are hardly visible so I can probably simulate them with simplified plasticard extrusions.

It is probably true to say that I have spent more time so far in thinking about this model and how to reproduce it in miniature than actually building it. It is an ongoing intellectual puzzle! Still, it keeps the brain active!

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Latest thing to think about is the lifeboats.

Topweight is always an under appreciated issue. My liner has at least 12 lifeboats depending on whether you look at the plan or the builder’s model and obviously they have to be kept as light as possible. Trying to carve them all in balsa doesn’t appeal. However I do have an old plastic moulded one of the right size which I have had ever since I can remember. I also have a polyurethane mould making kit which I bought to experiment with a couple of years ago and I have made a mould of the lifeboat. Next question – what to make the lifeboat from as it must be lightweight. Solid casting resin would be too heavy I think and doing a miniature layup using lightweight glass cloth and finishing resin would be a bit fiddly and messy. Whilst literally casting around on the internet I chanced on Deluxe Materials Create and Shape:

Create and Shape

This is an odd cross between a filler and casting material, very lightweight and It looks like it could be used to lay up a shell in the mould which would do the job. I thought it was worth a punt so I have ordered some. The lifeboats are only 6cm long so should be strong enough. Most will have simulated canvas covers but it would be nice to leave a couple open.

Colin

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Richard is right, the scales of some of the railway figures vary considerably, however, they ate cheap so it’s not the end of the world to buy several sets.

The last figures I used were 1/200, on the p&O ferry. They are awful, but too small to notice the awfulness of them, or indeed do anything with them to correct.

Super work Colin. Like the skylights. Funnel looks super.

I just can’t muster the wotsit to do that sort of detail I am afraid.

Ashley

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

My new little benches arrived this morning and they were exactly the right size. £8.29 for 10.

I took one out to check it on the model and, without realising it, I knocked the packet off the worktop. While casting around for the rest of them I stood up and trod on the packet. I now have one bench and some model scrap and lumber – AAAARGH!

And that was the last set the seller had in stock! I have emailed to see when the next batch might be ready.

Not a happy bunny! (got the flu jab to look forward to tomorrow as well….)

Colin

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

So sorry to hear Colin.  That must have been one sickening crunch when you trod on the packet!

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I never felt it Richard, the items were so delicate. Just saw the packet on the floor with a footprint on it…..

[Len Morris 2Participant @lenmorris2]

Hi Colin,

Back in the old days of Model Maker magazine when slot cars were included, there were quite a few articles about making light weight body shells.  One I remember, and I’ll try and find it for you, was about sucking down thin thermo-plastic sheet over and existing form.  It might work for your lifeboats.

There was nothing special involved, just a small box with a perforated top, a cylinder vacuum cleaner underneath and a hairdryer to warm the sheet on top.  The author made great claims about the body shells being light weight and crash proof.  Needless to say, as it was back in the 1960’s the plastic sheet came from old cut up plastic bottles.

Len. 🙂

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Thanks Len, but I know all about that method plus the associated one of simply pushing a master through heated plasticard sheet. Kit manufacturers still use vac forming for a lot of their fittings.

If the Create & Shape material does what it says on the tub then it will be a much easier process I think. I have already made one mould and have enough material to make a second one.

Colin

 

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I always made lifeboats with a small home-made vacuum box for miniatures – 32 feet to 1 inch (1/384)    The insides were just printed on the computer, stuck on plasticard and glued in.   Keels tinned copper wire glued on.    The grablines were printed on very thin layout paper – A bit simple, but looked ok on miniatures.

vacuum box – the drilled  sheet rests on the inner rim with the boat plug on top.

 

 

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Very neat Bob.

Colin

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Colin,

For your figures have you seen the new intermediate scale Hornby have launched TT120, not that much bigger than N gauge, I have some of the old Triang TT but the new scale is noticeably smaller 🙁

I think Hornby over priced it initially but the prices have nearly been halved now 🙂

Regards   Ray

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Hi Ray,

I have read about Hornby’s TT gauge. I have an ongoing interest in model railways although I don’t actually have any models. It seems that Hornby are in something of a difficult financial situation at the moment.

Launching a new TT gauge was a bold move but it is unclear whether it has paid off. 3rd party support is needed to make it a going concern.

Colin

[Charles OatesParticipant @charlesoates31738]

The lightest lifeboats i ever had to make used one of the oldest methods, and easiest . Gummed paper strip around a former. I know youve seen and probably used it in the past, so maybe worth considering. I think it was reprised in one of the mb specials a few years back.

Charles

 

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Colin,

Yes a very bold move to introduce a new scale !! I have a lot of 00 railway loco’s and stock some 009 narrow gauge,

I think Hornby have gradually put up the prices beyond the means of the average OAP’s who have been the main collectors and enthusiasts over the years, the new TT locos were introduced around the £200 mark and are now down to £85 it obviously hasn’t the following Hornby had hoped for !!

Trying desperately not to buy some 🙂

Regards Ray

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Charles,

Re Gumstrip, yes I featured it in the 60th Anniversary Commemorative Special Edition that I edited back in 2010. I did consider using it in this case but it would be a bit fiddly and since the loss of sight in one eye, fiddly things have become a lot more difficult with no binocular vision. I am having to find different ways of doing things and in this case, if I can ‘ice’ the interior of a polyurethane mould to get a lightweight shell that way then it is worth a try,

Good news on the benches front, I found the same item on Amazon for £1 cheaper and the replacements should arrive later today. However, having test fitted the boat deck it is clear that the benches on the deck underneath will be hardly visible so I will simply make up some solid benches from plasticard profiles and use the nice ones on the weather decks where they will be better appreciated.

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Progress has been a bit slow due to other commitments but I finally got around to trying out the Create and Shape using polyurethane moulds from a mould making kit I bought some years ago. The Create & Shape jar was labelled 2019 so both the mould and casting materials were probably somewhat out of date. But they did work although the setting process in both cases was probably a bit longer than if they had been new.

Anyway, I am now casting lifeboats two at a time with some success. Initially I just filled the mould with Create & Shape but after the first not very successful effort, as the C&R doesn’t hold fine detail such as the keel, I made up a lifeboat profile in .75mm ply and inserted that into the mould, packing the C&R in tightly around it. This had the advantage that when removing the boat from the mould the keel was sharply defined and the moulding could be sanded down at the top to give the required sheer. The C&R material is still quite soft and a dents easily but a couple of coats of Eze Kote and some primer filler paint hardens the surface to an acceptable level. The boats weigh next to nothing as well. I leave the boats for a couple of days to set in the mould and this seems to work OK. Also in the photo are some experimental railing samples 7mm high made from plasticard channel and Plastruct rod. Still a work in progress at the moment.

The other photo below shows some home made benches on my liner together with some chilly passengers. As they are well inboard under the boat deck they will be pretty much invisible but it’s nice to know they are there.

Colin

 

 

 

 

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Lovely and neat Colin.  One of my pet hates has always been repetitions!  I get bored very easily doing the same thing over and over and really struggle to keep things going to the last one.  All credit for taking on those handrails, not the easiest job at that scale.  They came out well though but making a long length will be a different proposition!

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

They came out well though but making a long length will be a different proposition!

Exactly! I have been giving it a lot of thought. The promenade deck is 16 inches long and the rod comes in 10 inch lengths so I will try for 2×8 inch lengths each side.

The uprights are 1cm apart and cemented into drilled upturned  channel  plastic channel strip which gives a strong joint. The ‘wooden’ top rail is then cemented in place using a spacer. This gives quite a rigid structure which will sit on the promenade deck with the uprights fitting into slots in the boat deck (these will be covered over by angle strip which will simulate the cover plate on the ship.) The lower bars are actually quite easy to fit by eye, the middle one first and then the upper and lower ones with a spacer tool to adjust if needed.

I now need to make a jig to allow the sections to be made off the model and ensure that the uprights are vertical and they can then be simply placed in position and glued.

Well, that’s the theory anyway!

The shorter section around the stern needs more thought as it won’t be possible to use channel strip as a base.

Colin

 

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I now have 12 lifeboats plus 3 spares. The Create & Shape is quite frangible and soft when it comes out of the mould, Probably due to the jar being past its sell by date.  I have therefore given each one a coat of EzeKote followed by Halford’s Filler Primer and white plastic primer. They are incredibly lightweight, before painting about 1.5 grams each, and the paint adds another 0.5 gram so roughly 30 grams for the 12 boats. I will be fitting paper covers in due course.

Also in the photo is the first section of deck supports and railings to come out of the jig. It is all Plastruct rod. 0.91mm for the uprights, 0.8mm for the top bar which will be painted brown to represent teak and 0.5mm for the lower rails. Technically they are all a bit too thick in diameter but making anything thinner is just too fragile. I did initially try using soldered wire but at that size it simply wasn’t stiff enough. The only other alternative would have been commercial photo etch and the only one to this scale has the wrong spacing and is incredibly expensive given how much of it is needed. The Plastruct isn’t cheap either but costs a lot less and can be made up to suit the requirements of the model.

Colin

Colin

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Rather a long gap since the last update but I have been wrestling with railing problems. I have spent many hours trying to get an acceptable solution using brass wire and rod and plastic alternatives but not been satisfied with any of the results. The plastic came closest as per the photo below but still looks too heavy and it was very difficult to get even  lines when viewed down the length of the model. Working at this scale and degree of detail just needs two eyes to give 3D vision and I don’t have that now.

I was therefore both surprised and relieved when Steve Mahoney, a modeller in New Zealand offered to undertake the artwork needed to produce a bespoke photo etch fret for the various railings on the model to my specification. This has gone really well and I am now about to order the fret from a firm in Scotland. I am really grateful to Steve for his help.

It will cost me an arm and a leg but the likely alternative would have been to give up on the model which I am reluctant to do given the amount of work I have already put into it. Hopefully the fret will arrive in the next week or two and I may order a second for my follow on model of ss Almeda, a 1926 liner at the same scale, for which Miltiades was intended to be a ‘test bed’ to practice making the details.

In the meantime I have turned my attention to the cargo winches, there are 12 of them to the design in the second photo. I have a full set of photos of the winches from the Internet.The only drawback is that I have to represent them on a base just 10mmx15mm! I have actually done this to 1:150 scale on a couple of models back in the 1980s but my eyesight was rather better then. But never say die!

Colin

 

 

 

 

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Do you know anyone who can produce a file for a 3D printer for you Colin?

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Yes this seems to be an item that needs a 3d print!.

Colin please do not tread on your new railings when you get them!

Trevor and I are going to try and make an A4 size capable  vacuum forming machine this year. I liked Bob’s small one for doing lifeboats however.

Ashley

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