RMS TITANIC 1912

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob, the outer props were powered by steam triple expansion engines which exhausted into a turbine driving the central prop – hence it's different size.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin

The expansion joint calculations still stand as the joints created an area of instability in the overall structure due to a lack of rigidity in the overriding superstructure.

In essence the hull could not support its own mass when out of the water and would fracture at the weakest point which is the expansion joint, without the structural bracing that the superstructure provides the hull would fail under its own weight.

Bob

The lack of full height bulkheads was down to cost and the owners wish to have uncluttered spaces within the ship.

The wing propellers were 23.5 ft dia whilst the central propeller was only 16.5 ft dia the reason being that the wing props were driven by traditional steam engines but the central was driven by a steam turbine. The central prop only worked in ahead and couldn't reverse.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I don't see that Paul! If you read the link I gave then the conclusion there is that the initial failure caused by the hull being unable to support its own mass occurred at the keel and effectively radiated upwards. The keel together with the doubling plating strakes at the top of the hull constituted the hull girder. The bottom was compressed and the upper part was in tension. The superstructure was essentially piggybacking on the hull girder and failed as well, probably indeed at the weak expansion joint, but the fracture of the superstructure was a consequence of the hull girder failure and peripheral to it. The superstructure plating was only 1/4 inch thick compared to 2 inches along the doubled upper hull strake. I find the arguments in the link quite persuasive in explaining how the wreck looked when it was discovered. The analogy they used is to compare the hull fracture with bending a tube. The bottom compresses, the top stretches and the sides bow out, the latter effect springing off the plating from the frames and allowing the stern to flood rapidly.

Colin

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

It is still uncertain as to whether the centre propeller was a three or four bladed. Documents were altered and Olympic spent some time with a three blade centre prop. No photographs exist of the Titanic's props and the photograph above is probably Olympic. Apparently the only way we will ever know the facts are when the prop is exposed by an undersea robot.

**LINK**

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

That sounds like making very economical use of the available steam power

Going slightly off topic, but with a connection, somewhere……The Waterwheels at Etherow were about 60 foot in diameter x 20 foot wide

They ended up as Pelton Wheels about 10 foot in diameter……….ish?

Bob

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

This is of interest?

Titanic compared to a modern cruise ship………..Awesome

Bob

[The Long BuildParticipant @thelongbuild]

Yes , I wish the Robot would uncover this as apparently they were constantly changing the props to see which gave better speed on the Olympic , most pictures of the Titanic I believe are the Olympic, Olympic was the first and so most photographed , Titanic , unfortunately only really became famous because she was the first of 2 of the 3 ships to sink. Pictures were doctored to suit.

Posted by Tony Hadley on 18/09/2016 19:04:04:

It is still uncertain as to whether the centre propeller was a three or four bladed. Documents were altered and Olympic spent some time with a three blade centre prop. No photographs exist of the Titanic's props and the photograph above is probably Olympic. Apparently the only way we will ever know the facts are when the prop is exposed by an undersea robot.

**LINK**

[The Long BuildParticipant @thelongbuild]

I obtained some plans a while back as I have always been fascinated by the History of the Titanic, long before the last movie and also  the Bismark to which I have the fleetscale hull and fittings to build 1 day.

 

Thought the plans were a bit small so scaled them up to 7 ft !! , they also give an image of the Iceberg to build

 

Edited By The Long Build on 20/09/2016 18:42:31

Edited By The Long Build on 20/09/2016 18:43:56

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

A seven foot Titanic would be a very impressive model Larry. Wish you good luck with the project.

One of the members of the Bury Club built a large Titanic in the 1990s which I think was around five foot. He made it into the Daily Mail when the model crashed into the concrete bank on the maiden voyage. For some reason the model was plagued with problems and he sold it.

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

The Maritime Museum in Liverpool have the shipbuilders model of the Olympic Class, currently displayed as Titanic. Reading the book RMS Titanic, A Model Makers Manual, the model was a hybrid of the three Olympic class ships and didn't undergo the best of restorations in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Peter Davies Gardner's book mainly covers the building of his 18ft !:48 scale model which is on display in Orlando, Florida.

Must try to get another visit to Liverpool this winter and take some better photographs.

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Here is the link to Billings Boat who is selling the building set of the RMS Titanic.

**LINK**

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Before we get lost in the flim flam glamour surrounding the Titanic here are some photos relating to The Mackay-Bennett and its gruesome task of recovering bodies.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

That was a sobering set of photos Paul!

But I liked the look of the Billings kit…….Especially the pre cut, exactly in line port holes etc, which make or break model liners

The snag is the price………About £700

Bob

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Posted by Bob Abell on 23/09/2016 20:07:50:

But I liked the look of the Billings kit…….Especially the pre cut, exactly in line port holes etc, which make or break model liners

The snag is the price………About £700

Bob

Yes, not cheap, but the modelship is really big, 1,8 metre long, 20 centimetre wide and 0,5 metre from keel to mast.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I suppose, the price of £700 is the norm for this type of construction?

Similar to the usual monthly sailing ship builds, like HMS Victory etc

It looks a wonderful relaxing construction, similar to a Meccano set?

I'm tempted

Any photos of current builds, you chaps?

Bob

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Bob,

There's a thread on a Billing Boats Titanic build over on a Swedish miodeller's forum where I'm also active. The build is as yet far from finished and of course written up in Swedish, but you could at least look at the photos of the build so far …

Part 1 ("del 1" ) starts here: **LINK** and then at the bottom of each part, there's a link to the next part (=del in Swedish), so far going up to part 4.

Oh, and I should perhaps add that I believe that the chap in question is building for static purposes only, although I think the kit is intended for r/c.

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 24/09/2016 07:55:44

Edited By Banjoman on 24/09/2016 07:55:55

Edited By Banjoman on 24/09/2016 07:56:33

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Many thanks, Banjo

I will take a look at your link, shortly

Unfortunately, my enthusiasm for the kit has somewhat taken a backseat!

Reading a few reports and build diaries etc, the wood quality and other disturbing comments, has taken the icing off the gingerbread!

These funny sayings are especially for you, Banjo…….Hope you can understand them?…..I think you can

For starters……The central prop, is GLUED in place!

That's enough for me, thanks

Back to the real world

Bob

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Bob,

I must confess that I am not surprised at those reports – personally I am rather wary of Billing Boats kits, as I, too, have heard quite a few less than flattering things about their general quality over the years.

Obviously a number of people have managed to build very nice models from their kits, and I don't think there are any unsurmountable difficulties involved, but at £700 one does not really want to have to deal with those kind of issues.

Actually, I would even say that I am more and more going off kits of whatever kind they may be. They have many advantages, not least in that they offer a nice quick-start on any build project, and the thought and creativity that goes into improving and/or modyfying them is absolutly enjoyable. However, I also feel that it becomes frustrating over time to have to deal with errors, inaccuracies or quality issues that are not of one's own making (as they would be on a scratch build).

I have one more kit on my build list, but once that one's been built I rather think (at least the ay I feel about it today) that I am going to foreswear kits … Never say never and all that, but still.

However, this is now veering very much off-topic, so the therad should now perhaps go back back to the Titanic … ?!

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 24/09/2016 08:57:35

Edited By Banjoman on 24/09/2016 08:58:01

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Mantua do a Titanic kit for around the same total price, it comes in five sub kits.

**LINK**

and

**LINK**

There is a build log here:

**LINK**

It also has a dummy central prop! (probably because the need to cut a slot in the central keel would complicate the construction process but no doubt that could be overcome.)

Colin

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Where are they now?

An interesting thought

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob,

According to Wiki:

The lifeboats were returned to the White Star Line at New York Harbor, as they were the only items of value salvaged from the shipwreck, but subsequently vanished from history over time.

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin

The Titanics lifeboats were used on the Olympic

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

How could the insurance company covering the Titanic…….Afford to pay out?

Being told the ship was unsinkable before hand………Would they still pay out?

I realise nobody will know the answers to these questions, but they are food for thought?

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul, I think that is possible but not actually documented. White Star kept them but they might have ended up on any of their ships.

Bob, the ship was never officially said to be unsinkable. That was just journalistic hyperbole at the time and afterwards. It made for a good story.

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin

There is a White Star archive at Liverpool Library that isn't on the Internet, a few documents make reference to Titanics surviving lifeboats having their registration plates removed in New York and then being shipped back to Belfast where they were re-plated and installed on the Olympic.

The White Star Line had to increase the number of lifeboats on the Olympic and those from Titanic fitted the davits.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 24/09/2016 19:00:10

[Author]

Posts