Rigging

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

I am a total starter at model yacht.

I have no idea as to what material is used to rig a typical RC model yacht, for example keeping the mast in place.

Nor do I know what the fittings are that are used to fasten the rigging to the hull.

It is the same with respect to the control runs between the servos and the sail.

I assume that either a push rod is used to connect the rudder arm to the servo arm, or is perhaps a snake?

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Carl

Perhaps, I can suggest an alternative way forward for you :-

Contact a local full-size sailing club and ask if you can "crew" for someone in their boat. By the term 'crew' it is generally taken that you will "assist" them to sail it. Explain that you are a beginner and they will understand.

Initially, you will help to launch the boat (perhaps a dinghy) and handle the fore sails (Jib or Genoa) under supervision. Someone else – usually the owner – will 'skipper' the craft and he/ she will make all the decisions.

You will learn more than I can write here, but, especially how the sails work in relation to the wind. Much of this will be directly transferable to model yachts (although there are some differences). As an engineer, you will no doubt be familiar with 'vectors'. So, you can use this knowledge to resolve the various forces involved in your mind.

As a bonus, you will learn all the specialist names of the various ropes and fittings etc. on board – and there are a lot !

Have fun,

Dave C

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

Dave

If only I was younger, I would love to join the local yacht club. I am now so old, I try not to dwell on the fact. I am now a liability , rather than an help, particularly with anything physical.

There is a practical problem that the tide is in only briefly here. Most of the time there is a vast expanse of sand then mud.

There is a model boat lake just a mile up the coast, which I intend to join. A rather disturbing aspect I have only seen boats, in this case yachts, once in four years.

I suspect that for me a lot is about the challenge of making things and understanding particularly when having been defeated in the past.

As for vectors, I recently got a surprise when I found that I could not get an answer to a simple Algebra GCSE algebraic sum. My daughter pointed out, you need to read the question, before starting. Yep, I can no longer read properly. I sometimes think there is not a lot of hope for old farts like me.

[Kev.WParticipant @kev-w]

Carl, I have just googled 'RC model yacht rigging' & there are lots of diagrams that show the various ways of doing things, looking at those will be much better than anyone trying to explain it in print on here.

If there is a model boat pond or lake not far away, there will most likely be an organized club who use it, some of the members will undoubtedly be into yachts & will be pleased to share their knowledge first hand.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

As Kev says, a local club will most likely be of great assistance.

Failing that, there's always good old 'trial and error' ! Many a design /construction problem solved this way…

I would also search out the websites of the specialist model boat suppliers. Much can be learned from their adverts and product descriptions etc.

Regards,

Dave

[john jones 23Participant @johnjones23]

While I have assembled a couple of rc yachts( Surmount and Affinity 65) I have yet to sail them!

I do have some experience of dinghy and inland cruiser yacht sailing ,which helped a bit in having a general idea of what went where.

In looking for extra help to clarify some of the kit instructions ,I found some of the online tutorials for the Dragonforce 65 helpful.

This leads me to wonder if a Df65 rig kit/sails might be sa suitable start,as it appears to contain all the above deck parts .

Could one of our more experienced/ DF 65 sailors comment?

cheers

John

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

I will be joining the local club, the cost is only £10. This provides insurance, and hopefully help from those that have some idea.

The help that forumites such as Kev and others have provided is one of the strengths of the site.

For me it is part of the fun, the challenge. It is something you dare not do when in work.

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Local club if available. Not seeing them at your local lake doesn't mean they are not there – their sailing times might not coincide with your visit times. When chatting with passers by ay my lake I often get told that they didn't know such things happened, because they had never seen it in 30 or 40 years. I've been playing boats there for 30 years.

Alternatively, sites like this or one of the many others with like, or more focussed, interests. I did a lot of learning reading racing reports (and looking at the pictures) in model boat magazines. What works for a top racer is good enough for casual sailers like me.

Catalogs give a lot of information, even if some of it is unintentional. You spot names of parts which need a web search for an explanation, but its all part of the journey along the learning curve.

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

I have looked at the "RC Model Yacht Rigging" link, there is a plethora of useful links. In many respects a lot to take in, due the technicalities of mast bending, affecting slot performance, the rake impact on balance. I am surprised that the change in search wording has had such a major impact on the results returned.

To an extent, some or more than i suspected, although not managed in a way I remotely expected.

One aspect that I feel very happy about, was the use of fishing spun, covered trace wire. Rather than various twines also mentioned in some contexts.

I need to print out some of the papers, as i have difficulty in taking in all of what is written, and i did get lost in some of terminology.

Edited By carl brotherton on 31/03/2021 11:08:33

[Fred wooleyParticipant @fredwooley76212]

look at Nylet sails website buy some rigging bolt and but some 50lb fishing wire trace make sure you get crimps with it dead easy to crimp …place crimp on wire loop though the eye of the rigging bolt back though the crimp all the way through and then form a small loop and put the tag back into the crimp then squeeze down the crimp with a pair of pliers….on the mast side buy some s hooks and crimp the same….I have sailed 1mtrs A class Marbelhead yachts and never had a wire snap on me…..all your running lines winches,,,,,,buy some Dacron from same supplier

Dave

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Wire rigging is great if you use screw adjusters, if bowsies are used, thread is needed. My preference is my reel of salmon backer (if I have remembered right, I bought it a long time ago and the label is long gone). Brown, braided sheath, running rigging slides easily, standing rigging stays put once you figure out how to tie the stuff, very resistant to stretching. On larger boats with higher forces B&Q's thinnest blind cord works a treat, but a 65cm boat won't get that far.

The starting point for rigging is just to make sure that that with the mast vertical the sails sit nicely with a straight leading edge and the other two sides having a gentle curve, and no wrinkles between. Worry about the other stuff later. Tuning can't happen until you can see what needs tuning, and that is a function of the first sailing.

[Eddie LancasterParticipant @eddielancaster]

And many more sailings if my experience is anything to go by, according to my Tx my IOM has been on the water for around twenty hours and I am only just beginning to get an idea of what needs to be changed to improve handling, speed or pointing etc.
Eddie.

[Steven S. 1Participant @stevens-1]

I am also new to sailing and have bought a Dragon Force 65 RTR boat. It can

me with a very good rigging manual that I have provided a link to: DF65 rigging manual

Here's a picture of my rigged boat. I have removed the keel for winter storage.

Edited By Steven Shaw 1 on 04/04/2021 03:47:11

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Posted by Eddie Lancaster on 03/04/2021 09:46:18:

And many more sailings if my experience is anything to go by, according to my Tx my IOM has been on the water for around twenty hours and I am only just beginning to get an idea of what needs to be changed to improve handling, speed or pointing etc.
Eddie.

Yes, my usual advice is to just change one thing at a time to know whether that change has had the desired effect. One day, I might do that.

A thing about model yachting is that conditions, and possibly the problems being solved, can change in the time spent doing a tweak on the bank. Certainly they change day to day. Its's part of the continuing fascination. A single circuit of "my" lake even on a really nice day does offer a range of conditions. Even an oblong hole in the ground like Fleetwood (a superb venue for racing) keeps its interest because of these changes.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Dead right Malcolm. I never bother to change much on my Hydropro Affinity 65 yacht. Our lake is quite small but it can be keeled over on one side of the lake and becalmed on the other! Rarely a nice steady wind.

Chris

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

Steven

I cannot thank you enough, the link to the rigging of the Stormforce is very much exactly what I was seeking, it actually exceeds my hopes.

I wonder what diameter is the mast? Why you may wonder, it could be a source for a number of parts, which avoids me trying to make things where I do not really know how to make and how they should function.

I have printed out the manual. A lot to assimilate.

[Kev.WParticipant @kev-w]

The 'Dragon Force' mast is 7mm carbon tube, here is a Link to where you can buy a kit of Mast & ready built booms.

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

I find myself with a degree of internal conflict. On the one hand I like making things. On the other hand purchasing a Dragonforce kit is probably much simpler, also probably cheaper. More debatable is which teaches me the most. Although I am pretty certain that the Dragonforce will or would produce the most consistent results, with a higher performance.

So even the rigging materials is much more of a challenge than I ever thought.

I get the impression that Dyneerma thread has been used consistently through out on the Dragonforce. Am I correct?

The next thing which demonstrates my total lack of understanding is the drive by the servo to the sails. I now understand that the drive is not via the hatch where the servos reside. It appears that with the Dragonforce , there is a pushrod to the transom area? Some how this is then attached to the cord and direction reversed. On the GIF there is no detail at all.

I now need and will read the Dragonforce manual, as there is so much more that I do not understand, and what is going on.

I am increasingly tempted to abandon this GIF build and buy a Dragonforce.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Carl,

I think basically you chose a complex design to build as a beginner to model sailing as the JIF65 is a racing design. Who knows what treasure the second drawing would have held !!

Yes the Dragonforce RG65 is an excellent choice and is part assembled below deck with the drum winch & steering servo in place and is not really a kit, just a put it together exercise, it doesn't have rigging as such as the mast is plugged into the hull and only needs a back stay and a wire forestay as part of the jib.

The rod you see going to the stern is the pushrod to the rudder, and the mainsail and jib are both sheeted back to a running line which is tensioned by elastic to the bow of the boat very simple and effective.

I will post a couple of photo's of my Dragon Flite 95 which is bigger but uses all the same principles.

Hope that helps

Regards Ray

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Carl,

As mention before the photo's and yes the DF65 is much cheaper than scratch building, and even has an option to have the radio fitted for you see Howes of Oxford advert/website.

The other wire is the on/off switch.

Regards Ray

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

Ray

Thanks for the pictures they save a thousand words, as the proverb goes.

I have been watching a large number of videos, on building the dragonforce. The only issue that many of the techniques and tips are dragged out, with the hands hiding what is actually being illustrated.

Now I am difficulty understanding what is stopping a deck mounted mast falling backwards. I can see the side mounted lines, one each side. I can see the back stay. But, but, but where is the forward equivalent? To stop the mast tipping back?

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Carl

Not just a deck mounted mast either. The mast is held forward by a stay that runs in the luff of the jib and connects down to the deck with a swivel.

The forestay and backstay don't just hold the mast up. Tension on the backstay keeps the luff of the jib nice and straight. That is a lot more efficient than a saggy luff.

I do use a temporary forestay (just a mirror image of the backstay) when setting up. This keeps the mast in the desired position while I fiddle about with the jib arrangements.

Tim R

[carl brothertonParticipant @carlbrotherton75833]

Tim

The description you have provided, confirms a suspicion I have had. It just seemed a little confuted, way of holding the mast in place. I wondered how the forces required to hold the mast in place, would affect the foresails hanging and operation.

I now know that a rather obscure small hole in the aft deck(of the JIF), corner area is there for the drive to adjust the sail position, (as a consequence of Rays help). The way it is done, on the not using a pulley as on the dragon is totally inefficient. Yet more food for thought.

I am slowly building a image and knowledge base, with respect to rigging.

Being an aeromodeller, it does come as a surprise that you tend to know a lot about this corner of modeling, the alternatives (more than one way to skin a cat) and the advantages, disadvantages, with particular applications. Starting in a new (to me) field, then it quickly becomes apparent there are areas where you are out of your depth, It does emphasis that there are advantages with the Dragonpower type kits.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Carl

Support for the mast is additionally provided by the mast locating on a peg. Once the backstay is adjusted to put some curve in the mast as required for the mainsail it is very secure.

On your original thread I suggested using the Dragonforce keel and bulb. But now that you are thinking about the rigging what about this as an idea?

Now that you have got the hull to where it is it would be a shame not to use it. Dragonforce and similar (I have the HydroPro Affinity version) are great boats for general sailing and racing but as Ray says they aren't even kits as the main part is assembling the rigging and keel so you aren't really getting the satisfaction of building anything and learning from it. So what about buying a Dragonforce, as you had thoughts on, and using all the parts (except the hull) on your build? This would have the advantage of getting all that is required and seeing how it all goes together on a well proven design and your model still having your stamp on it.

If all goes well you can sell the hull no problem and if it doesn't you can use it yourself!

To get my building fix I have my Faireys but for general boating and racing I'm happy to buy RTR and ARTR (ready to run and almost ready to run – the Dragonforce being the latter) but I wouldn't want to just do that.

Chris

Edited By Chris Fellows on 08/04/2021 17:08:21

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