Prototype build of ELLIE

[Peter FitnessParticipant @peterfitness34857]

It's looking very good, Paul and Bob. I particularly like the middle version which would nicely complement the boat I built several years ago from Ray Wood plans, enlarged. I would be interested in purchasing your plan when it is ready.

Peter.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you, Peter…..For your kind words and photo of your very nice model, nice colour scheme too

Your cruiser looks almost the same as ours……Is it based on any particular full sized boat?

Thank you for your purchase option…..You could be our first customer?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

To explain the principal behind the drawing delivery system.

Normally when someone wants a set of plans they order them from a supplier and after a couple of days the drawings will arrive by post. Usually the drawings are in large sheets such as A0 or A1 size.

With the download process all of the information is sent through the internet via an email attachment, the drawings and instructions are all contained within the attachment in a format called PDF, most modern computers have PDF software pre loaded before being sold, this software is called Adobe Reader and enables the computer to open the PDF documents. Sending the drawings this way means that the end user doesn't need any special computer skills or fancy CAD software.

In fact all that you need is a computer connected to the internet and an A4 printer and the beauty of PDF is that there is no degradation of image or change of scale.

After opening the email all the user has to do is press the print button and their own printer will print the drawings in A4 pieces the user then 'cuts and sticks' these A4 pieces together to produce the drawings. However most pieces such as frames are small enough to be contained within one page so the cutting and sticking is kept to a minimum.

The user can print as many copies as they like which makes the production of cutting templates very easy.

I hope this explains the system but if anyone has any questions please ask

Paul

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Well now Bob and Paul T, I woulld like to purchase your scale model production of this interesting plans .Having little real knowledge of laying out plans you are teaching many of us where to start.,thanks for that. A nice big cabin criuser appeals to me .Best of luck with the continueing build

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you, Mike

We are pleased you like it!……It`s nice to get some encouragement at this early stage

The model is 36" long……Is that big enough?

Now doubt, Paul can produce a larger size at the touch of his CAD button?

Bob

[Peter FitnessParticipant @peterfitness34857]

Bob, as I said it was built from plans by Ray Wood, which were free with, I think, a Marine Modelling International magazine of a few years ago. I don't know if it is based on any particular boat, but I think it is a generalisation of the type. Ray called his plan Margoletta.

Just let me know when your plans are ready, and I will certainly be a customer.

Some more photos below.

Peter.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you, Peter I like your model, very much

The hinged canopy is a nice feature too

Have you a photo of the skeletal build, please?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Following Bobs suggestion of a building board the plans and templates have been changed to reflect this.

The top surface of the building board becomes the datum from which everything can be checked, the other reference point is the bottom edge of the keel which is exactly 160mm from the building board.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 31/07/2013 07:08:13

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Paul

No wonder you've been quiet lately!……Burning the midnight oil, hey?

An excellent assembly drawing, Paul and it certainly looks a labour of love?

It explains the assembly process, nicely

I should finish the formers today, having corrected the earlier formers to the latest issue.

Looking at the above isometric layout…..The space between Former 1 and the front edge looks very severe?…….Don't think the ply will get round that?……Only thinking out loud at the moment!

Bob

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

I enjoyed the photos of Margoletta, Peter- and I was particularly impressed with the finish on your boat- brush or spray? I remember the plan ( I have a copy) and there were photos of the prototype sailing in the basin of one of the big hire boat yards in the Broads if I remember correctly.

All of this is making me nostalgic for the Norfolk Broads-haven't visited for two or three years now. I also think Margoletta was the name of the 'evil' motor cruiser in one of Arthur Ransome's books about the Broads- possibly Coot Club- but I may just be having a senior moment! Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Following with interest, Bob and Paul.

Ian

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

The isometric view is a little misleading and presents something of an optical illusion around the bow / frame 1 area. If you look closely you will see that the bow piece of the keel doesn't have a sacrificial piece connecting it to the building board, it is this that is creating the illusion of being a very tight curve.

When I built the first prototype I managed to bend 4mm ply skin around this curve to complete the hull covering (I have to admit to using rachet straps though)

Having specified 4mm ply for the skin I am now persuaded to change this to a more easily manageable 1.5 > 2mm in liteply (or similar) this change should help beginners with the build.

Paul

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Paul/Bob
Having used both materials I can say that 1.5mm marine ply is more difficult to handle as it may need steaming to fit the curves, but it is easier to obtain a decent finish and is stronger than the 2mm liteply. If I were using liteply for skinning this size of model then I'd be tempted to add glass-cloth and resin to the inside of the hull in each compartment for reinforcement. For those without local suppliers I can recommend SLEC for either material; there is a link to their website to the right of this column.
I had to draw an isometric exploded assembly of a white-metal cast Waterfall winch for the Aziz instructions…….jolly fun!
Dave M

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thanks for the advice, Dave

Don't fancy the FG option really……..It's nasty stuff, we'll make that an option….Make a note, Miss Jones!……Yes, Sir

Will be glueing the skeleton together shortly, then we'll see!

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob / Dave

My usual practise is to fit 4mm skins but, as you already, know my models tend to be on the large side and as such need the hull wall to be thicker.

At 3ft this model is the smallest that I have ever skinned in 4mm and whilst it was something of a challenge to pull around the curves it has made for a very strong boat…..I tested this by dropping the prototype hull from a 1st floor window onto concrete and I am happy to say that apart from a couple of scratches it survived intact.

Having seen the above comments from Dave and Bob I will stick with the 1.5mm marine ply option, for those following the thread this wont effect Bobs build as all of the frames remain the same.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Shop floor Progress report……

Spent the day, tinkering with the formers and trial assembly……..My tip of the day would be…..Don`t make the fits too tight!…..As they confict with each other

It`s my job to make sure that the formers are correct as drawn, without the need to adjust them on the build.

Unfortuneately, Paul has also been tinkering and some formers needed bringing up to date!

If they are not right, I`ll get the DCM…..(Don`t come Monday)…..or even "The four o`clock walk"!

Those were the days…lol

Bob

[Peter FitnessParticipant @peterfitness34857]

Ian, the paint is from a spray can of household enamel. I used car body spray filler first, vigorously rubbed down, followed by an undercoat then several top coats. The finish has proved to be very durable and is still looking good after over 7 years of constant use.

Bob, when I built Jessica Louise I was not in the habit of taking build progress photos, as I do now, however, I did take one of the bare skeleton, which is shown below. Incidentally, she is named after our first and, at the time, only granddaughter (now 20 years old). We now have 2 more granddaughters, the last only 2 weeks old.

Peter

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you, Peter

Just what we wanted. It's nice to see that we are doing similar in all respects….Upside down etc

What did you cover the frame with….Is our next question?

I've had a trial run with 3mm soft ply and it had no chance of getting round the bows area!

0.5mm looked feasible though

What are you building at the moment?

Your destroyer model, a few years back was lovely!

All the best….Bob

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Message from, Gladys, shopfloor liaison co-ordinator

Looking at your very excellent isometric layout, Big Boy……

It would be a good idea if we had a sacrificial extension on the keel with a foot base similar to the formers.?

There is likely to be a lot of pressure in that area when the fireworks start!….lol

Good idea, Gladys!……Now why didn't I think of that?

I'm too busy getting these formers right!

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I thought it might help the followers of this thread to see the positions of the formers in a non isometric layout so that they can better understand why there is so much discussion about bending plywood to form the hull.

The upper image shows the deck and the readers can see how the hull forms around the bow, this is the the ply bending that we have been discussing and whilst I have already made a prototype hull using 4mm ply Bob has quite rightly pointed out the difficulty that beginners would have in making 4mm ply bend so tightly, this is the reason why the specification has changed to 1.5mm thick marine ply.

In this way the original design shape remains unchanged.

I hope this help to explain what has been happening and show how designs can be improved through practical application.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul

Apart from the Former 6 to the prow section, there probably would be no problem with the 4mm skinning……Which I like really as it's nice and strong and has scope for sanding to shape

How about making that section from blocks of balsa? This would be attractive to the Newbies?

I know you are out for most of the day, so we'll wait with baited breath

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Memo to the Chief Engineer

Perhaps it would be beneficial to include solid wood an optional method for constructing the bow section, by adding this as a variation I would be catering for all skill levels without diluting the main design.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Work in progress…….

Finished the formers and keel and have dry assembled them

Next job is to screw the formers down, very accurately and then stand back and study the structure

Checking the formers and stringer notches for accuracy and true form

Even though the formers are accurately made, I`m still expecting a few adjustments here and there. A rough check has not shown any problems

The Transom is squared and screwed in place

Not having any 6mm plywood in stock….I've used two  pieces of 3mm and glued them together, crossing the grain, which has made a very strong format, especially with the long wibbly wobbly keel!

Taking shape a last…………Bob

Edited By Bob Abell on 01/08/2013 20:51:40

[Peter FitnessParticipant @peterfitness34857]

Bob, I used 1.5mm ply, not marine grade, just normal ply, probably pine. It took a bit of coaxing around the bow, but dampening the wood softened it enough to make it bend. Reinforcing the chine with fibreglass matting strengthened that area, and a coat of resin inside and out waterproofed the whole hull. Wetting non-marine ply is not usually a good idea, but because of the low humidity at the time I was building the boat it dried before any damage was done, and it was just damp, not dripping wet.

I am not building anything at present. We moved back to our farm about 18 months ago, and my time has been occupied doing some much needed renovations to the house. My wife keeps finding jobs for me to do, and said she needs to make a list. I told her I would buy her a roll of wallpaper for the list, as anything else would not be big enough We are going away for about 6 weeks on Tuesday, and when we get back I will hopefully get building. The big jobs are done so I should find time for modelling. I live in hope

I am following this thread with great interest.

Peter.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

The photos are great and the frame is looking perfect.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Shop floor to management……….This is the keel nose suggestion in action!

The formers are all screwed down and lined up with the centre line

Note the strong block securing the prow……..If we decide to use 4mm ply, this area will be under considerable strain

Action Man

[Author]

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