Old Motor Torpedo Boat

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Found in Antique shop

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Bought this today from an antique shop at Blakemere. Saw it a few weeks ago when they wanted £120 but offered them £50 cash and they took it. Not sure who got done??

There are other pictures showing the old batteries and controls which may give somebody an indication of when it was built.

I took the engine out and cleaned it up but it is siezed tight. It is water cooled and has a fuel tank and a long exhaust tube to the stern. If I can free it I may have a wee project for it!

I am going to interrupt my Ellie build for a while to try and get the refurb' going with the intention of putting twin motors and props in. The old prop was badly bent and the shaft bent also. Obviously been sat on them in a loft somewhere.

If anybody has any info to help with the rebuild or on the motor it would be helpful.

Cheers

John

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

John. Nice find. Looks eminently restorable. I would say 50 quid for a decent size hull with deck and upperworks attached is good value.

Love all the old radio gear and so on.

There must be 1000 threads on motor choice for this, I am not going to go there.

​Ashley

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi John

I think you bagged a bargain there ! its a bit of history, I'd keep it original including the receiver and actuator and the Ever Ready dry cell boxes and put a brushless motor connected to the old diesels flywheel whip the conrod out of the engine so it runs freely ? It probably would still run after a WD40 bath, its worth it for the smell of the ether

Regards Ray

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi John

Your find is very similar to an ELCO PT boat, the same type that JFK Captained during WW2

Paul

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Cheers guys. I feel better about the £50 now.

I would love to keep it original Ray and the idea with the brushless on the flywheel is a good recommendation. You mention the battery cases, just got them back out of the bin, what would you suggest with them?

My thought was a sporty pusher tug with plenty of space for the engine if I can get it running. I suppose that should be the first job to see what is what with it.

I will give it a hot bath tomorrow. WD40 and steam may help!

John

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul is right, it is an Elco – history here:

**LINK**

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

There is a reference to an American PT boat carrying the 264 number link

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Also found this article which states it had 3 engines

http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=ELCO-PT-boat

Fitting three motors would preclude trying to use the old controls of course. Even if they still work.

Given the history comments not sure which way to go????

John

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi John

Three motors in a model MTB look very impressive but not essential after all your model was originally fitted with only one.

Personally I would ditch all the old equipment and fit modern (and reliable) electric motors and electronic controls.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

It is a nice big boat, it deserves three motors!

Yes and modern gear, much as it would be very nice to run with the old stuff but reliability is the thing.

Ashley

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

I'm pretty sure that's the Aerokits Patrol Torpedo Boat at 40" **LINK**

Here is one not a lot different on ebay at £279 – so I would say the £50 is a bargain **LINK**

That old Elco PT boat from Les Rowell has pretty inaccurate superstructure – even my 20" plan is better! If you want a guide for improving it – this is the place to go: **LINK**

 

 

Here's my half-sized balas version:  

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 04/11/2016 20:17:16

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Thanks Paul and Ashley. That is what I was thinking really. I want to get the old motor going and will use it as said earlier in the thread. If it works of course?

Will update as I go and am quite excited by it.

Cheers

J

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Cheers Dodgy

Made my day. I will check out the info'

Many thanks

J

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Alternatively, go here: **LINK** and turn to pages 22/23 (it takes a time to load). There you will see the original catalogue advert and all the fittings that went with it.

They are not accurate depictions of the originals at all – the PTBoat.com site is much better for that…

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

John,

I restored a 40 inch ELCO PT boat similar to yours about 8 years ago. I started with three 500 sized motors and a lead acid battery and quickly realised it was underpowered and overweight. I had lots of problems in developing the propulsion system and many of these were covered in an article  which was published in the Sept 2010 edition of Model Boats magazine. The article is available on this site under the title PT 602 in the features section but you need to be a subscriber to the magazine to read it.

The model has now been re-engined several times and currently has a pair of Graupner Speed 700 (7307) brushed motors and a single 3S 6000 mah LiPo battery and goes very well. However if I were to start again today I would fit a pair of brushless motors. The propellers are scale sized 30 mm diam 3 bladed units.

At the time of the restoration John Haynes supplied a range of 1:24 fittings for an ELCO PT boat and I bought several of these. They were excellent quality but it appears from his website that most of them are no longer available.

Here are a couple of photos of my model as it was some years ago, its an excellent choice for a quick hooligan blast around the pond.

Gareth

 

Edited By Gareth Jones on 05/11/2016 10:54:50

Edited By Gareth Jones on 05/11/2016 10:58:37

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Gareth

Thanks for pic's and advice. Much appreciated.

Do you know if there was a real difference between the US and British torpedo systems? It is just that your model and this model show the torpedoes on deck rather than the tubes that seem to proliferate the US boats.

Regards

John

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Hello All

Can advise that with the use of plenty of WD40 and my newly acquired steamer the engine is rotating and sucking and blowing from all the right places. Even free'd up the throttle.

Now maybe a daft question: what does it run on and how does it work. I assume like a diesel engine but I take it not diesel as there is no sump so a 2 stroke type of fuel is my guess. I recall many, many years ago having a glow-plug engine in a hovercraft I made. Unfortunately that crashed and sank.

If some body could point me in the right direction please.

It crossed my mind when I free'd it up to use it as the middle engine with twin electrics either side but it was a fleeting thought!!

Cheers

J

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

John

Model diesels don't have sumps – the fuel mixture contains the oil. If it has a counter-piston and a compression screw on the top of the cylinder then it's diesel. If it has a glowplug with a central coil of thin wire then it's a glowplug. If there's a recognisable spark-plug in it then it will run on petrol. All are run in different ways and on different fuels, but in all cases the oil is mixed in with the fuel.

Some pictures would greatly help – you'd be amazed how few of even the cleverest people on this forum are telepathic.

Dave M

[John O’CParticipant @johnoc]

Hi Dave

Not what I heard on the telepathy front!!

Does this help if not I will get some more tomorrow.

Cheers

John

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

That's a diesel, for sure. At first I thought it was an ED Viking but then I noticed that the flywheel is on the opposite end to the drive dog. Maybe someone else recognises it.

DM

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

The engine is probably an ED Hunter 3.46 – see here: http://nitrosteamengines.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=276

That is a model diesel two-stroke, and uses model diesel fuel, which is NOT full-sized car diesel fuel.

All two-stroke fuels are a mixture of fuel and oil – model engines often have quite complex mixtures of other chemicals to help the small charge explode reliably. Model diesel engines typically have an Ether-based fuel, perhaps with Parafin added, with Amyl nitrate to improve performance (and oil as well, of course). 1/3 ether, parafin and castor oil used to be the starting mix…

In the old days we used to mix our own, nowadays buying the components will probably get you investigated for terrorism, health and safety, and being different…. I don't know how easy it is to buy ready-mixed fuel from model shops, but I suspect it's not possible.

You may also find that you are limited in where you can sail a model boat with an internal combustion engine even if you do source some fuel, so you might find converting to brushless is the easiest way to go…

 

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 06/11/2016 15:51:46

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 06/11/2016 16:01:11

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 06/11/2016 16:02:35

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

The results from a quick google seem to indicate that model diesel fuel is still used by the air modeling crowd, and available to buy ready-mixed: http://www.modeltechnics.com/diesel.htm …

This of course does in no way invalidate the caveat about the potential difficulties in finding a spot of water where i/c-engines are still allowed.

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 06/11/2016 16:05:42

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Aha – not-a-Hunter – probably an Otter: **LINK**

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Banjoman on 06/11/2016 16:05:24:

The results from a quick google seem to indicate that model diesel fuel is still used by the air modeling crowd, and available to buy ready-mixed: **LINK** …

This of course does in no way invalidate the caveat about the potential difficulties in finding a spot of water where i/c-engines are still allowed.

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 06/11/2016 16:05:42

 

 

I see they use Isopropyl nitrate rather than Amyl nitrate now. Probably because Ann Summers has bought up all the Amyl…

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 06/11/2016 16:12:14

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