Old Chinese Junk

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Hi Ian,

The model I have is thirty two inches long by eleven and a half inches wide. A friend's wife, who speaks Cantonese, looked at it a few weeks ago and said that the writing on the rear was 'very old' but hasn't come back to tell me what the symbols mean yet. I hope to visit the maritime museum in Eyemouth soon and will take some photos with me in the hope that someone there has seen something similar and can shed some light on its origins.

Ronnie.

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Anyone…think these would be OTT for sails?

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Ron ,

A WASTE OF A NICE DRESS .

go back and look at the sail i posted,

go to dress makers shop and look at dress liners ,

they are called junk sailers not coco camban cat walk designs ,

but still its your prodject do what you want,

but stay with the theme , i can only go with the real world …..cheers Larry..

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Hi Lary

Thanks for helping me decide to go with a plain sail. I have already made two front sails, one in gold silk and one in cream/off-white cotton, by drawing round the original as best I could. I've hand-sewn them, very roughly just now, and was looking for some bbq bamboo skewers to use for battens but Tesco, Asda and Sainsburys were all sold out today. I fancy dying them dark green to see how they look. If they look okay, then I will cut out all three sails in whichever material looked the best and get my female friend to machine sew the hems properly. I found this page online to go with your diagram: http://www.thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Shapes

My mates were a bit worried about me buying a dress anyway!!

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ron, As Larry says, it is your project. Personally I would go with patterned sails of some sort. For an "exhibition" (shelf) model I think this would be more interesting. The slatted bamboo ones would tickle me as what I would like to see on a really ancient model and they would be very different, accuracy notwithstanding. I am a sucker for being different.

BUT of course the real ones had plain sails. It is a matter of taste, yours of course as you are rebuilding it !

I completely understand the dress idea and top marks for thinking outside the box. However it is usually much easier to work with this sort of thing off a roll, nice and fresh..no creases or unwanted stitching and so on.

Ashley

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Hi Ashley

I like to be a bit different too, sometimes. My car has a few mods to make it stand out from the rest. I have posted a photo from last week with one bamboo sail but I wasn't sure how to cut it to shape. Maybe I should have asked you or Larry for some more advice. I really need to get some sails sorted out soon so I can then finish off the smaller bits that remain to be done. If I keep the model, perhaps I can make some silky patterned sails to put on on specials occasions!!. I have a customer who sells silk garments online but I'm not sure is she makes them or buys them in.

Always good to hear from you and Larry

Ronnie.

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

I've had worse afternoons…..

Hope to get some more red skewers tomorrow.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ronnie. To me that main sail looks too small..but there again the prow and stern are much higher than the pictures of real boats, it seems..

Just as an idea. Wedge in or otherwise fit doweling masts to the boat, and cut stiff paper sails, to the approximate shape, colour in and line in the stiffeners with a felt pen; stick sails on with tape or a hot glue gun. Stand back. Look..decide if you like the look of it. The picture you have in your album of the bamboo mat hanging squarely doesnt look to bad to me. I rather like it (as a sail texture)

The number of masts and proportions of sail can be dickered with using the "what does it look like" method and you will, or should, arrive at something you are happy with.

The hull you have is so bold in both dimension and colour that it needs a bold set of sails to set it off. However this is my personal opinion only.

If I was going to make some Egyptian boats to set off some of my Ancient Egyptian soldiers, I would be drawing inspiration directly from the models found in the British Museum..from tombs, and from the artwork on Hyroglyphically (?) enscribed rock. That is what I would like, as the reality is probably much more boring.

Ashley

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Hi Ashley

I think I agree with you that it looks on the small side. I did 'stick' the other two sails in place and they look too small. The piece of wood that I've used on the bottom looks like it has had four nails through a sail in it and is nearly four inches longer than the sail I copied. As you say, it will need big bold sails to 'look the part'. Still, I'm learning and I didn't expect to get it right first time. I will make another sail using the bottom piece of wood as a starting point.

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

This is fun.. Fabricating from measurements, just like making a patch to weld to a car.

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

ENTER THE DRAGON…….

Hello Ron,

sail cloth looks ok,

i have done a bit of mucking about, using my usal scratch build items ,

lining wall paper , scewers ,garden cane , tea bag kids beads , shirling elastic, a little bit of photo shop , plus epson printer , total work time 1/1/2 hrs ,

cost pennies might build hull for it , one day…..cheers Larry…

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Very impressive sails, Larry. You should build a hull for it one day to show them off.

I printed a dragon on some a3 paper last week but didn't think about the ageing effects and it looked a bit unnatural so I abandoned the idea. Yours look very realistic.

I think the sail I drew last night had a better shape and will try it on some cloth later. I took twice as long as you did on yours to hand-sew the three sails but I have loads of material, which was all given to me for free. So far, I've spent £8.43 on the 4 pots of paint and thirty bob on a piece of dowelling. The hull with the bits and pieces was free (to a good home) also.

Ronnie.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Larry. you are getting into the swing of things now!!

Very good!

Ashley

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Hi ASHLEY…

Thank you , just mucking about with some junk………..……..Larry..

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Hi there Ronnie

I'm enjoying this thread! Looking forward to your end result

Amy jane

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Hi Amy Jane

I am enjoying this thread very much too. Larry and Ashley always have something interesting and constructive to say.

Hopefully, the model will be finished soon. I have cut out three slightly oversize sails, in paper, that I 'feel' look right and will do them in one of the materials sometime this week. I am waiting on my customer that sells silk garments online to get back to me as I would rather cut out the dyeing process and get a length of red,orange or dark green silk off a roll, as Ashley suggested.

Good news this morning regarding the symbols on the rear of the model. The mechanic's Malaysian wife e-mailed her brother a photo of the Junk and I think he's identified them all. She was telling me about them this morning but she was reading it off her phone so I asked her to text or e-mail the details because I would never remember everything.

Ronnie.

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Just received this information about the Junk…..

It looks to me that it's actually 2 sets of words. The 2 characters in green are : Ning Bo, which is a coastal city near Shanghai
The 3 yellow plated characters (right to left) reads: Jin Zheng He, basically means Golden Zheng He. Zheng He is a very famous 14th century explorer, like Columbus. Check wikipedia, lots of info there

So basically, i think, what those characters signifies: Golden Zheng He, which is the name of the boat. And Ning Bo probably means that the boat is from there.

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Not much progress this week due to being out every night and warm weather. Have had a brief sewing machine lesson and made the centre sail in the heavy cotton (at quarter to midnight last night). Cleaned and straightened the anchor this afternoon.

Found a place that does fabric dyes, without using a washing machine, and hope to get an orange, dark green and possibly a brown-ish one on saturday. The orange looks the most likely choice to me, at the moment.

Can't get hold of the silk-lady but she has tailors that make the garments so I may get a bit from her at some point. Larry wouldn't approve of me buying one of her coats to cut up for sails and they are a bit expensive anyway.

http://www.thesilkjourney.com/home.php?cat=248

Ronnie.

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Spent this afternoon on the Junk, got quite a bit done. I like the look of the large sails but the flags then couldn't be used. The smaller sails would look better if they were bright orange, I think.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ronnie. Looks good, I like the size of those sails…realistic or not.

Orange is of course one of the "normal" colours for junk sails. I would be a devil, and try making some patterened sails to see what they look like. Only need to be material (for instance) or whatever stuck on a bit of card to shape and propped up on the model to see what it looks like!.

Buy a cheap watercolour kiddies painting set and paint up some paper sails ..easy way of looking at various colours against the actual boat.

Ashley

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Hi Ashley,

Thanks, I'm quite pleased with the way it's coming along.

Junk: to-do List

Paint a design on rear upper boards and lower rear panels.Renew string on rudder.

Re-paint hull in matt black.

Decide on colour and size of sails and make them properly.

Decide on battens, yard and boom colour or woodstain, paint and cut to correct lengths.

Securely attach flag material to frames.

Spent some time in the Sally Army and PDSA charity shops this afternoon. Got a skirt in a nice burnt orange colour in one and a horrible XL t-shirt in the other. Also got some dark green dye and salt from a diy shop and longer bamboo sticks in poundland. Grand total of £9.87.

I looked at a lot of flowery/patterned dresses but most were only coloured on one side and two that I really liked were £39 and £18!. I wouldn't mind paying that kind of money if it gave the Junk a 'special' look but I wasn't sure that they would. Still got the dye and skirt to play with so might not have to look again.

Ronnie.

[JC Uknz 1Participant @jcuknz1]

There are numerous styles of sails for junk vessels so a table mat might just be suitable.

Your photos were slow uploading and really they are too neat and tidy and 'western'. the Genuine junk was very low tech to be cheap to build and rig.   The booms reduce the stress on the sails so they can be virtually anything and not really a 'nice picture' Sorry but you seem to have a good hull which deserves a more true to reality rig. 

If you want to research possible rigs I suggest getting a book from the public library or National Library Service if you have such a thing in the UK.

There is a blog on Yahoo but since I have sold my yacht have dropped my connection to it.

The authority on junks and their rigs was called Rochester I think

A search for 'Junk Rig' on Wikipedia brings up numerous references, some contemporary western use but also Asian variety.'

Edited By JC Uknz on 23/06/2013 09:30:39

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Hi JC

Thanks for the info and constructive criticism.

I would say to you that I think the model was made in China, quite a few years ago, and was made for the western market when things were a lot different. Otherwise, there would be no need to have English writing on the label underneath.

I am not too worried about it being realistic. I don't think too much thought went into making it to scale. It is a large ornament and I don't intend to keep it. Whoever gets it after me will get the original (tattered) sails and all the other 'bits' that I either don't know where they go, or don't want to put on it.

I became a member here in the hope that someone would say "this is how it should be" or maybe post a photo of one the same that I could copy. If you would like to suggest a style, I would be quite happy to try it on the model.

Ronnie.

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Hi Ron,

Leave the funky clothing in the dressing up  box , and go with sails on the junk all ready ,

a bit of distressing is all they need , dont forget they are working boats,

 

but there again its your build , ……..guardy sails wont look right……….

see the junks in HONG KONG harbour on the web………

cheers Larry…

Edited By LARRY WHETTON on 23/06/2013 10:31:03

[Ronnie FowlisParticipant @ronniefowlis79370]

Cheers Larry.

Sorry Ashley!!

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