New members to our hobby

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Vic Smeed didn't have an uphill task of behaviour modification – he was 'selling' to converts. We want to make converts – quite a different job.

I have a keen appreciation of skills of all kinds and marketing is a skill, with techniques and jargon just like any other skill. It may well be common sense – structured common sense, in fact. Most human endeavour is. But the fact that some people are paid a great deal of money to undertake it is no reason for us to ignore it.

I would like to have a better idea of what might be achievable, and what resources we could command, before jumping into boat design (which is much more fun!). We have no money, but a lot of us might have time and skill. Our first market survey (Dave Milbourn Agency, sample size 1) suggests that we have a wide open door in terms of product awareness, so simply showing what's on offer could net some fish.

I am less inclined to avoid schools – they contain all of our targeted audience. But I note that presentation needs to differentiate between formal lessons and hobbies…

Now I need to run something up the flagpole and see if it rings any bells…

 

 

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 19/01/2016 14:56:11

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 19/01/2016 14:59:19

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello DG

Please forgive me but phrases like market survey and product awareness just leave me cold, but in light of your final sentence I think you have already figured this out.

Paul

Incidentally the last person to 'run things up a flagpole' was a heavy plant rep who didn't ring any bells as I bought the forklifts from another company.

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

These phrases may be jargon from another skill sector, but it is a successful one. I despise salesmen myself, but I can also recognise the benefits of a well-thought-out marketing campaign.

While most of what I say is tongue-in-cheek, there is method… When selling, most people consider the message they want to present. Some think about the medium they are going to use to do it with. Few spend time considering the psychology of the target audience….

As an example, you might be interested in this classic example of salesmanship – The Theory and Practice of Selling the AGA Cooker – a short document, but one which has been called " the best sales manual ever written".

 

 

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 19/01/2016 16:41:56

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Why despise salesmen – they are doing a job just like anyone else? Yes, there are bad ones but there are also good ones who give you the information you need. A bit patronising there DG!

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Colin

Personally I'm not bothered by salesmen until they bother me. What really does bake my potatoes are middle management types who reel off business speak gobbledygook.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

You just have to be philosophical and take a helicopter view Paul. As an ex middle manager myself I agree with you about the obfuscation of management speak with which we were frequently plagued. On one occasion I rather dented my career prospects when we were told in a meeting that a certain proposal was to be 'run up the flagpole to see who salutes'. I enquired if it mattered what sort of salute was given which wasn't the required response.

Eventually I was offered early retirement….

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Well done Colin.

My usual response was to tell the poor chap exactly where I would shove his flagpole.

I also take the philosophical view but my helicopter has a muck spreader attachment.

Paul

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Why has it got to be fast just because they are young? Seeing shiny triangular shaped "boats" zipping along at high speeds has always left me cold, and I have never had any interest in them. Looking at these things on Ebay, they appear to be very expensive and, dare I say, very dangerous as well. I have heard several occasions of them hitting the pool sides at high speed and flying into the onlookers causing untold damage. Same with R/C aircraft and drones. You really do have to consider safety these days! In most cases the young are not the slightest bit interested in them as a pastime. You only have to see them coming out of school. A very large percentage have their heads down, thumbs going like pistons on their mobiles, often with blank expressions! A lot of them even walk backwards! (Wonder why they do that? if you don't believe me, just observe). Hardly anything has visible moving parts these days, and that is probably to blame for a lot of it. Steam locomatives could be very majestic coming into the stations belching smoke with the impressive pulsating chuffing sound. Shining driving rods and pistons, clouds of steam, white hot fireboxes – couldn't help but impress! Looking in the backs of old radios, you could see glowing valves and moving parts, and the splendid smell of burnt dust! Schoolchildren always seemed to be making things in the 50s and 60s, but it is all finished now!

If any of them do chance to look at this section, they will see you all arguing with different views and that may well be enough to frighten them off! The few that may be interested in high speed electrics will surely find their way in without any pressure being apllied. I would just leave them to their own devices, but encourage the 1% that does show interest!

I accepted long ago that most of the young, middle-aged and even the old and very old model fraternity has not the slightest interest in the type of models that I build or the ships that they represent and I know it is just a waste of time trying to influence them!

Bob

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Perhaps I should say the profession rather that any particular individual – and here I was thinking of WPP, the largest advertising agency in the world, and closely involved with the Cabinet Office's 'Behaviour Modification' office, of ill repute…

I'm not sure 'patronising' is the word you'd looking for, Colin. I would have picked 'insulting' myself. To which I would have replied that it's a poor life if I can't throw gratuitous insults around. Rather like one of my favourite blogs:

http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk

Try it. It does wonders for your blood pressure…

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I have just looked at Devil's Kitchen, and found it fairly gripping. I got quite a way down it, before saving the link and stopping for the moment. I will be going back tomorrow to digest more of it, but I do think it is rather good reading – thanks!

Bob

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

How about this one. Very simple, but far more to look at than a high speed electric.

I don't know who made it, but just found it on U Tube. Great project for younger model makers.

Bob

**LINK**

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

Children are not mindless zombies, children these days are just the same as they were in previous generations even back when you were a child, if you were a child these days you would hanker after computer games and mobile phones….its nothing to do with attitude its all about peer pressure.

Kids do like shiny fast things, just like we did when we were children.

DG

The devils kitchen is such a depressing insight into todays society.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob, that's not a million miles away from Vic Smeed's Hobo tramp steamer which has just been restored to the plans range courtesy of Tony Hadley.

Colin

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Interesting – that's very similar to an unpublished EeZeBilt I built for someone a few years ago – The Birtley, a Newcastle collier…

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Colin

That picture does seem to match up with the u tube clip! I had forgotten all about the Hobo, but remember it now!

Paul

I never said they were mindless zombies. They are very clever when it comes to computers and things like that. BUT THEY ARE GENERALLY NOT VERY PRACTICAL, and appear for the most part, to be living in a "virtual world!" Neither are they like I was when I was young, because even then, I did not like shiny fast things! The best thing anyone could give me in the 1950s and 60s (and even now) was an old valve radio! Speed never cut any ice with me, and the sight of an old tramp steamer labouring along at 7 knots in a heavy sea was infinitely preferable to "fast shiny things!"

As for computer games, they are not for me, and even if I was of school age today, I doubt if I would have been interested. I use computers quite a lot, and am pretty good with them, but never use them for games.

It is not me that is trying to change them and force them (or encourage them) onto things that don't interest them – it is you! I say let them follow their own interests without any interference. In the unlikely event that they do show interest, by all means encourage them, but most of them just do not seem to be interested in anything practical as far as I can see!

Bob

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

DG,

I sailed in a couple of them when I was a lad. Here I am on the left, on the bridge of the collier Wandsworth, (South Eastern Gas Board) in 1962 – she was my 4th ship. Has been at the bottom of the sea since 1969 now – RIP Wandsworth.

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Here are a couple of photos of my freelance tramp which is still in working order.

Colin

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Colin,

Now, that is a real beauty! Performing well in heavy weather. How anyone can prefer a flashy speedboat to one of these, I will never figure – but I accept that they do! Maybe the younger generation would be interested to see how some of us lived in a past age, but sadly, sights like this are rare, even on the boating lake!

Bob

"When the chief keeps hollerin' he wants more steam,

An a big sea followin abaft the beam,

And the starboard bunker shoots are jammed,

And the captain's wishing us dead and damned!"

(Life of a stoker)

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

To each his own. I rather like "flashy speedboats" – but only when they start life in my workshop as sheets of balsa or plywood. The idea of buying a ready-made boat is alien to me but I know there are others who, for their own reasons, either wouldn't or couldn't build one. By the same token there are far more people who don't give a tinker's cuss either way. To each his own.

Much like the paragraph above, I think that this thread is beginning to eat itself so I shall make no further comment on it (unless provoked…)

BTW Aren't all tramps 'freelance' – by definition?

DM

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

What a lovely model Colin – most impressive. As for SS Hobo, this is one which would build into a really interesting little model at 24" long. I would really like to build this one, just too many others on the go at present.

Going back to the subject, projects for younger builders, Vic Smeed presented three models for this purpose. In the 1975 BBC TV series, Model World. Sea Rider and Wind Rider were built by two young builders and for the 1985 Channel 4/Ulster TV series Model Magic, Ulsterman was presented. Wind Rider was a yacht, Sea Rider was a Leander class frigate and Ulsterman an oil rig support vessel. All were very easy balsa build, with plans and build instructions in the books which accompanied the programmes. They were all free running although Ulsterman could be fitted with a steering servo, possibly modern miniature radio could be fitted.

Whether they would appeal to modern youth, I very much doubt it. My only thoughts on making something which could appeal to youngsters is by using the very successful Lego building system. This system has produced some very interesting model boat designs which a search on the internet shows.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

From the current MPBA Newsletter

At the recent AGM & Executive Meeting we discussed ‘where do we go from

here’.

It was agreed that I can co-ordinate a small working group of members to

consider how we can regenerate the MPBA and reduce the decline in

membership that the Association has been experiencing in the last few years.

I hope to co-ordinate a meeting of members, one from each area of interest,

which are:-

Scale

Multi

Fast Electrics

Circuit Racing

Tethered Hydros

Straight Running

If you are a country wide member or a member of a club and would be willing to

meet with me and discuss ‘where do we go from here’ alternatively supply me

with your ideas then please contact me by e-mail or letter.

I will then, hopefully, be in a position to provide an interim report to the NEC

(National Executive) of the MPBA at the next meeting which is on the 6th March

2016.

As you can see time is tight, so please, please put your name forward if you can

spare some time to either meet or correspond with me on the future health &

way forward for our National Model Boating organisation.

If you do not want to get involved in a working group but you have views on what

need to be further developed, reintroduced or any new ideas or gaps in our

services to YOU as members, again, please just drop me a line & I will coordinate

all YOUR views and relay them back to the NEC in March 2016.

Thank you,

Bill Hornby, MPBA Membership Secretary, 91 Ridgestone Avenue, Bilton,

Hull, HU11 4AJ. Tel: 01482 814120 (With Answerphone) E-Mail:

[email protected]

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

I note that the 'areas of interest' are strongly 'competition-biased' – and there is no 'average modeller' representation – which perhaps goes some way to suggest why the membership is declining. Because surely you start out as an 'average modeller' before you specialise in an area like 'fast electrics'…?

 

Looking at their web sites, pretty much every club seems to think that a 'Regatta' or 'sail-in' is a good way to publicise the club, and some have several such events a year.

Since club regattas take place on club lakes, however, the publicity is limited to areas where the public are already exposed to model boating. Other lakes exist in these areas – some in better view of the public, where boating is absent. There are also areas of the country with no active clubs at all, and which therefore do not enjoy any public exposure to the hobby.

I wonder if the MPBA might consider identifying such places, and establishing a group of enthusiasts willing to travel to them and provide 'demonstration display' events? These could be coordinated with local fetes, holidays, etc. In many cases the nearest clubs could provide a 'cut-down' regatta, and I'm sure the MPBA has presentation material. Because these places will typically not be familiar with model boating, a body with the authority of the MPBA would be needed to front any such proposals. 

I can imagine a sort of 'Red Arrows' team, backed by display stands. Some modellers are already happy to travel quite large distances for national events, and do this on minimal expenses. Lakes/reservoirs are nationally available, and where there is no suitable stretch of water there will always be a municipal swimming pool. If a council made a local swimming pool available for half a day, they have already-existing viewing facilities and crowd-handling (we can always hope!), and the submariners could join in….

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 20/01/2016 11:00:30

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

DG

To take your idea one step further there could be a nationwide F1 type of event where clubs enter teams to compete in I.C. and Fast Electric races at different venues.

This could be on a fortnightly cycle over the summer months where each venue would be the home water of a competing club.

The hosting club could fill up it coffers by arranging a full weekend of events.

Paul

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

The aim would be to introduce boat modelling to sections of the population who have never actually seen it before….

I like the idea of a racing event around the country. It would cause little disruption to put on, compared to a road race. F1 make a fine living out of it, and Red Bull do a lot of this sort of thing – perhaps they could sponsor it… And there would be advertising stalls as well…

I wonder how much you could sell the TV rights for..?

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

In recent years the MPBA has recognised the need to cater for non competitive events as well as its traditional competitive base membership and the Scale section is the largest one in the organisation.

So there is nothing to stop DG and Paul T and anyone else taking up Bill Hornby's invitation to discuss these issues to the benefit of all. I'm sure all constructive suggestions would be welcome whether from MPBA members or not.

I am also sure that this Forum and Model Boat Mayhem would be more than pleased to provide a platform for such issues to be discussed although the contributions to this topic have actually only attracted very limited participation in terms of numbers despite being extensively viewed by people who are presumably already interested in the hobby.

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 20/01/2016 15:22:26

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