New members to our hobby

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Dave

Thank you for your confidence in my abilities and for the links but the purpose of this thread is to discuss different aspects of attracting new members to our hobby and not my self promotion. As far as the boats on your links are concerned I don't think that they are particularly inspiring especially to a younger generation brought up on Star Wars and Marvel comics.

Hi Tony

Whilst I agree that the Daniel Adamson would make an excellent subject for a plan I don't think that it is modern enough to enthuse younger readers.

Paul

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

They will remain interested in whatever they are interested in, and I doubt if anything will divert them. Not even worth the effort of trying as far as I am concerned!

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

Were you were a youngster were you encouraged to learn the practical skills that enable you to produce such fine models.

If the older and experienced chaps of your youth had simply turned around and said 'Not even worth the effort of trying as far as I am concerned! what would have become of Bob Wilson?

Paul

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

No, I was never encouraged to have any interest in the sea! (My dad was a railwayman through and through, and so was his dad!) I was given a set of early 1900 bound Wide World magazines by my other grandad, (who was a tailor) and just took an interest in the sea stories, expressing a desire to go to sea in a sailing ship from a very early age. "The Wreck of the Svaerdstad" (see above model), was one of the stories. How a British able seamen, Edward G. Fox, saved the life of the captain's, daughter, Miss Christenson, when the ship was lost in the White Sea. It made so much of an impression on me, that many years later, I came across plans of the ship, and built the above model. I was told that there weren't any sailing ships anymore, and I would not have been able to stand the life anyway. I persisted with my interest, despite all efforts to stop me, and eventually went to sea at the age of 17 where I immediately found that it was hard work, and I didn't like it at all! But like many others before me, I didn't voice my hearty dislike of the sea, but made my old schoolfriends green with envy with my stirring tales of adventures on the high seas. Then, I had to keep up the pretence by going back again. After a few years, I came to like it, even more so when I landed on a large passenger liner. (RMS Windsor Castle) I started building models at the age of about 8 and was never encouraged by anyone – I did not even know anyone else who built merchant ships! I never stopped building them. Very few fellow modellers have the slightest interest in building merchant ships of the 1850s to 1965 era, and I have grown used to it. (In fact most of them make it a "point of honour" to refer to them as "boats!" At the local ship model club, I can almost see the eyes glaze over when I arrive with a new model ship!

Bob

Here I am in 1952 at Rothesay on holiday!   Nine years after this photograph was taken, I was away at sea!

Edited By Bob Wilson on 16/01/2016 21:42:10

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

I don't think that they are particularly inspiring especially to a younger generation brought up on Star Wars and Marvel comics.

Perhaps not, m'duck, but they are boats and not space ships. Maybe that's where things have gone wrong? BTW Star Wars is 40 years old this year and Marvel Comics have been going longer than I have.

I have posed the question to Archie Rowe (grandson #3) who is 13 and thus much closer to the target population than either of us old geezers. I'll let you know if I get a reply… It may take some time, though.

Dave M

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

OK – message received from Rob and Archie:

HI Dave,

Interesting stuff, Archie Says that he has no exposure to model boats, or models in general.

Its not in the magazines he reads, not talked about in school, not on the TV channels he watches and nothing on his social media.

I think if the school were more involved, in promoting it as a hobby, or the hobby was given a modern makeover, something that attracts his age group, and then advertised so that Archie would see it and want it.

Star Wars was maybe a great opportunity to have Model Star Wars vehicles etc., maybe lead them in on the back of something they are interested in ??

Hope you enjoy the snow today.

Regards

Rob and Archie

 

The floor is yours once more…

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Being rejected is disappointing, being invisible verges upon humiliation!

Colin

[shipwrightParticipant @shipwright]

This is an almost philosophical topic. When I was growing up in the 50's I used to help my dad with his DIY. Ready made things were in short supply and expensive so if you needed a cupboard you had to design and build it yourself – no flatpacks. My father was a mechanical engineer and whenever I asked about something (why? what?) he would explain. I recall asking why the electricity that came from a battery was DC [+-] but the electricity that came from sockets in the house was different. He did not dismiss the question but gave a deliberately simplistic answer and said that I would get a better understanding when I did physics and maths at school. Dad also built me a model railway when I was about 10 and encouraged me to construct keilkraft balsa and tissue planes. Also had meccano sets, dinky toys etc etc.

I went off into the world, married, children, pressure of work, tending to house and garden etc etc. Whenever I could I tried to show my sons how to make things and described how things work. I didn't find the time to do modelmaking. Now my sons have homes of their own (away from where I live) but have no inclination to be involved in modelmaking. One son is a keen sporty type and much of his spare time is spent running, cycling and swimming (when he was younger all of his spare time was taken up with competing in triathlons)

The world is a very different place to grow up in today. Whilst there is technical lego and you can get electronic kits at Maplins there are the distractions of film and TV (hundreds of channels), smartphones, computer "games", plastic toys, cult of celebrity/personality, ready made household goods available at relatively low cost, no repair (throwaway and buy another).

I suspect that some of the above will resonate with the readers on this website – the fascination that I had with designing and making things does not seem to have "rubbed off" on to the next generation – maybe that's my fault but I did try !

Ian

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Children are naturally inquisitive and enjoy making thing they just need the right subject matter, of course some will never be practical or wish to build models but there is still a large and untapped market out there of youngsters who have never been exposed to model building or worse still think it is the preserve of granddads in sheds.

Films like the new Star Wars are a great way to create interest in model building……….perhaps in the future model building wont be sub-divided into different subjects and an all encompassing hobby of model making will emerge.

Bob

You missed my point I didn't ask if you had any encouragement to go to sea, I asked what encouragement you had to pick up tools and learn how to build such super models.

Paul

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Shipwright's comment strikes quite a chord with me. I recognise a lot of the situations and attitudes. In particular, I recognise the mania (?) for physical fitness which grew during the 1990s – my kids were aficionados, and you cannot pass a 'Cash Converters' without seeing a selection of 'keep-fit' machines…. obviously we are living in a world with fashion changes which go in generational cycles as well as yearly ones…

I do not think the urge to 'make things' has completely vanished. Plastic model kits are still represented in toy shops – perhaps not so well as they were – and the 'Hobby-Craft' chain is still in existence (though loosing cash as it faces Internet competition). Hornby and model trains are still hanging in there. I note, though, that the models that still exist are typically ones where you make or buy a 'pre-determined' item. The 'designing' side seems to have shrunk considerably, following the history of Meccano.

A mention of Meccano makes one think of Lego, which is doing very well, and is increasing size and profits. But again, the Lego items that you buy (particularly model boats) involve the assembly of a specific item. Though Lego is touted as an infinitely flexible toy that can make anything, I guess that, in practice, kids only make what is shown on the box lid…

Which makes me wonder if lack of interest in design is the issue? Perhaps there is an opportunity for Model Boats magazine (as a representative of budding modellers) and an industry body such as the Royal Institution of Naval Architects to get together and sponsor the development of a schools CDT package? Sounds like a win-win to me – the RINA do an awful lot of sponsoring but don't seem to have much exposure to pre-degree education, while Model Boats would probably like a regular subscription from schools' libraries…

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Posted by Dodgy Geezer on 17/01/2016 11:59:31:Perhaps there is an opportunity for Model Boats magazine (as a representative of budding modellers) and an industry body such as the Royal Institution of Naval Architects to get together and sponsor the development of a schools CDT package? Sounds like a win-win to me – the RINA do an awful lot of sponsoring but don't seem to have much exposure to pre-degree education, while Model Boats would probably like a regular subscription from schools' libraries…

Um….. DG, I don't think you have a clear understanding of the economics of publishing Model Boats magazine. Everything is done by a full time editor and part time designer, to say the overall budget is tight would be an understatement. There is no spare money to invest in initiatives and indeed the company have stopped sponsoring its only show, the ME Exhibition in its usual format. It is scheduled to return next September on a different basis in a new venue but at the moment there is no indication of any marine content.

Basically the magazine industry generally is in a relentless decline and nobody sees much sign of that situation changing anytime soon. In order to continue publication, most periodicals are cutting their coats according their cloth and making substantial cost reductions as you may have noticed with our competitor magazine. Digital subscriptions are being encouraged but are insufficient to make up the shortfall.

Within these constraints, Model Boats is currently doing OK but there are no resources available for crusading initiatives I'm afraid.

Colin

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Paul,

No, I didn't miss the point – the answer covers both models, and the sea. I was never encouraged to build models! At the age of 8, I was given a couple of cheap kits, I think they were Golden Hind and Santa Maria!

On completing them (not very well) I asked for another, and was told by my parents that I couldn't have one as they couln't afford it. My mother then said that if I had anything about myself, I would make my own from whatever I could find. Shortly after, I was given a small tool box with a few simple tools, and a box of wood offcuts, and left to get on with it. That was not really encouragement, but more to keep me quiet! My old headmaster resented any of us doing anything remotely practical, and if any of us brought anything we had made to school, and got caught with it, massive telling off! That made me more determined that ever to build model ships, because I had been told it would do me no good at all! There was no encouragement at sea, although modelmaking was quite common in that environment at that time, but it was mainly confined to ships in bottles or kits, neither of which appealed to me! If anyone shows interest, I am always willing to help, but very few people of any age do show interest.! I long ago accepted that is the way of things!

I would be banging my head against a brick wall trying to get anoyone to build model merchant ships of the 1850 to 1965 era.

A very large number of model shipbuilders seem to like reading how build them, but rarely get beyond "I could never do that!"

Indeed, in the 21st century, it is unusal to hear a merchant ship being referred to as a ship, the preferred word being "boat!" The exeption being warships that are never referred to as battleboats, warboats, 74-gun boats of the line, or boat of war I don't feel it is up to us to dictate what the younger generation do. It is a different age now, and I just accept it, and have done for many years!

Bob

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 17/01/2016 12:27:16:

Posted by Dodgy Geezer on 17/01/2016 11:59:31:Perhaps there is an opportunity for Model Boats magazine (as a representative of budding modellers) and an industry body such as the Royal Institution of Naval Architects to get together and sponsor the development of a schools CDT package? Sounds like a win-win to me – the RINA do an awful lot of sponsoring but don't seem to have much exposure to pre-degree education, while Model Boats would probably like a regular subscription from schools' libraries…

Um….. DG, I don't think you have a clear understanding of the economics of publishing Model Boats magazine. Everything is done by a full time editor and part time designer, to say the overall budget is tight would be an understatement. There is no spare money to invest in initiatives and indeed the company have stopped sponsoring its only show…..

 

Perhaps I didn't explain myself terribly well. I expected the MONEY to come from the RINA – they seem to have a large track record of sponsored events. Or, of course, another of these quasi-governmental bodies who are looking for justifiable ways to spend government allocated grants so as to retain the same level of grant next year. I certainly had no thought that a commercial organisation like a hobby magazine would put up money – even when the hobby was much more popular than today I recall that competition prizes and the like were invariably donated by companies in the industry. Even if I could produce a good business case for Model Boats spending £10k in a sure-fire profit making venture I suspect that there just wouldn't be the liquid cash available…

What I was expecting was that the Industry bodies/educational bodies would put up the cash, and that Model Boats would put up the contacts and expertise – advising on projects, perhaps judging competitions, hosting adverts… the aim being to boost interest in schools and increase circulation. I think I had worked out already that if I were invited for a lunch-time meeting with the magazine I would be expected to bring my own sandwiches…

 

 

 

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 17/01/2016 13:23:39

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

I don't see this as trying to dictate what people do, instead I see this as providing options that people might not have considered.

DG

Your proposal sounds like a good idea but doesn't necessarily need input from the magazine, I think that everything that you are suggesting could be done by a small group of individuals operating as a C.I.C through social media.

Colin

Whilst on the subject of magazines what is the predicted life expectancy of the Model Boat Magazine?

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul,

It depends really……

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

It depends really……

On what?

Falling Subscriptions, a profit motivated switch to e magazine, publisher selling the title to another company, lack of paper, act of parliament, global warming or alien invasion.

The reason behind the question is that perhaps a printed magazine might not be the best way to communicate with a potential younger market but moving to a subscription based e magazine might also be a turn off. Maybe publishers moving into e magazines should be looking to fund the process purely through selling advertising space.

Paul

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

DG

Your proposal sounds like a good idea but doesn't necessarily need input from the magazine, I think that everything that you are suggesting could be done by a small group of individuals operating as a C.I.C through social media.

Such a push needs a recognised 'establishment' body to front it, if you want to involve government money. Too many fingers got burnt in the 'Kids Company' scandal to run with activists, however well-meaning. Something like the 'Bloodhound' project might be possible…

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Paul T on 17/01/2016 15:25:09:

…………………

The reason behind the question is that perhaps a printed magazine might not be the best way to communicate with a potential younger market but moving to a subscription based e magazine might also be a turn off. Maybe publishers moving into e magazines should be looking to fund the process purely through selling advertising space.

Paul

Advertising space sells well to a rising market. Without one, the future for any magazine is managed decline. The important thing is the hobby itself – you can't run a successful magazine off a defunct hobby.

I recall that 15 years ago the Telegraph famously noted that its readership were all ageing, and successfully re-invented itself. Something like that is needed…

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Various forums like this are virtual online magazines – and they are free as well! Speaking for myself, I prefer a printed copy in my hand, but have found that moving into the digital age has been quite successful on a small scale. But I doubt if a magazine with a circulation like Model Boats would be financially more successful than the present printed version!

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

No Bob, older readers do prefer to have hard copies which they can carry around and read wherever they like and don't depend on batteries! As your eyes get older the printed word is a lot easier to read than electronic screens and hand held devices are a lot smaller than A4 pages! OK, so you can increase the print size on your device but then you can't see the whole page (and maybe the photo being referred to in the text).

That is why I preferred to buy your last book as a book rather than a download.

Colin

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 17/01/2016 16:59:22:

No Bob, older readers do prefer to have hard copies which they can carry around and read wherever they like and don't depend on batteries! As your eyes get older the printed word is a lot easier to read than electronic screens and hand held devices are a lot smaller than A4 pages!

Consider older readers by all means – but not considering how you are going to attract young blood to the hobby is surely commercial suicide?

I would rather have a flourishing hobby than an easy-to-read explanation of why Model Boats has to close because the subscription list is no longer viable.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

How do we marry the needs of existing customers with the expected requirements of younger people? As Colin quite rightly says older people prefer a hard copy and yet younger people are used to a 'paperless' existence and having access to publications that can be viewed on phone, tablet, PC, TV and move effortlessly between all of these mediums.

Are model boat builders going to become victims of a form of natural selection and slowly slide into obscurity simply because we couldn't or wouldn't adapt to changing conditions.

Yes some of you wont care as long as your printed magazine arrives on time each month but what would happen if, for example in two months time the publisher announced that the printed version is to expensive and had decided to change to electronic formats……..would you try to adapt so that you could continue to enjoy reading the articles or would you simply give up.

Of course the printed magazine isn't the total world of our hobby, yes it is a very useful way to keep up to date with the hobby but it isn't an absolute necessity, perhaps the hobby will continue through websites like Mayhem.    

Edited By Paul T on 17/01/2016 17:54:38

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

There have been lots of suggestions that this should be done or that should be done but always it seems by somebody else and usually involving somebody shelling out a not insignificant sum of money for what can only be a very speculative return.

DG, you mentioned 'managed decline' and that is a perfectly logical option. The publisher will keep publishing until there is no longer a profit to be made and will then close the title down. No money will be lost in that way and investment can be directed elsewhere where returns are more promising. This of course is what actually happens. There is no sentimental attachment to model boating as such. As model boaters we may regret that happening but from the publisher's viewpoint, with a number of titles in their stable, they will shed no tears if one of them can no longer be supported by the existing market and they will be extremely wary of spending money in a speculative attempt to shore up that market which even if initially successful may be shortlived.

I believe that there is enough support to keep Model Boats in print for some time to come. I doubt however if there is enough of a market to support two model boating magazines for very much longer and the survivor is likely to benefit from at least a proportion of the readership of the other which will give it a boost.

I simply do not believe that it will be possible to put model boating back in the position that it was 30 years ago. The world has moved on and people now have other interests. Kids don't make things like they used to, and when they do they aren't particularly interested in model boats. If I was growing up today I'd probably find electronics and robotics far more interesting than putting a motor into a model boat that I could only sail when Dad could find time to drive me ten miles or more to the nearest pond I could sail it on.

But of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy the hobby while we can.

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 17/01/2016 17:58:50

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Colin,

That is what I said! I believe readers generally do prefer the printed version! I also said that I don't think it would be viable for Model Boats or any othet model magazine to go 100% digital. The printed version at the moment will always sell more! My last book is available as a download, and it has done extremely well as such, but nowhere near as many sold as the printed copies that are far more expensive! It is OK for me, where profit doesn't matter a great deal, but I doubt if the main model magazines could make a success of going totally digital! You could hardly build a model whilst refering to a tablet or e-reader!

Bob

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 17/01/2016 17:56:14:

…………….I simply do not believe that it will be possible to put model boating back in the position that it was 30 years ago……..

I don't think anyone was asking for that! But some thought on how to slow the decline would come in handy…

[Author]

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