info wanted re pond yacht

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

Hi have put some pics of my pond yacht on the facebook page and would like any info anyone has of "lady Betty".I have limited computerese and don't seem to be able to post a pic here.

Thanks

John G.

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

Have also put pics in the Albums section of this site.

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Hi John,

Your best bet is probably to try the Vintage Model Yacht Group. They have a web site with several pages of models that have been submitted for identification. Your first step might be to look through the list and see if there is anything there similar to yours. If not you can submit details of your model to see if it can be identified. You will need basic dimensions, hull length, breadth and depth and a good side view photograph showing the keel and hull shape.  Its difficult to see the keel shape in your photo that you posted.

The web page is here **LINK**

It looks to me as though it is probably a1930 ish Braine steered model, probably a Marblehead if its 50 inches long (scaling it roughly off the armchair) but I am afraid I can't be specific as I am no expert.

Gareth

 

 

Edited By Gareth Jones on 26/01/2015 20:41:29

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hello John,

I have to agree with Gareth – that is a Braine steered yacht and looks very much like an early Marblehead. And it all looks to be present and what luck to also have the name of the restorer and sailmaker under the cap. I just write on the underside of the deck or on the hull itself (nicely of course).

I'm sure Martin will assist, even get Russell to help, you never know, they might even know the chap who did the work, Lewis Shubrook, though I've not come across his work or name before..

Aye, Kim

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

Thanks guys will deffo get onto the Vmyg. She’s a gorjuss boat 47 1/2 inches long.

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hello again,

your measurement means that this yacht is not a Marblehead Class, as all such yachts are 50 inches [class rule]. There are, however, several old pond yachts built at 48 inches, the Isle of Man was quite a centre for them in the 50/60's.

Let us know what the VMYG think.

Aye Kim

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

Hi Kim , Russell at vmyg believes it is a marblehead…but no one so far has recognised the names.
am wondering whether to restore to sailing condition, or just clean it up as a static display as it’s in fairly good condition.I tend towards agreeing with Russell potts ,who says they should be able to sail…don’t want to destroy the patina tho….what you think.can put better pics up if wanted.
Yours aye
John G
Isle of Islay

I

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

John,

if Russell says it's a marblehead then so be it, he is the expert.

I would restore it to near sailing condition even if you only intend having it on static view. It'll keep the sails fresh and force you to replace any unwanted rigging with new. You'll be bound to be asked how things work, what's this for, what does that do etc so restoring it will answer the questions. There's a lot of info about and Braine gear and was the second simplest invented auto steering method at the time, though various additions have been made through the years, till it was virtually lost with the advent of vane steering gear.

I'm currently re-fitting to sailing trim a 36R for a lady in Wales. I've had to make several pieces of deck items and, I thought, invented the reverse Braine quadrant due to lack of deck at the stern behind the rudder post, when I found a picture of a 1930's yacht with the same conversion done.

Here's that picture with the quadrant elastic engaging beam foreword instead of aft the rudder stock due to limited deck space.

And here's my version of the quadrant, using the one supplied, I soldered a foreword beam to engage the elastic ahead of the rudder stock.

Aye, Kim

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

Nice one kim.are you in scotland, I'm on Islay

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

I'm Isle of Man, that one in the Irish Sea.

Kim

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Hi John,

I would agree with Russell and Kim, its best to try and restore it to a sailable condition if you can. My wife is currently restoring a 48 inch pond yacht built in the 1930's which is also, at the moment, unidentifiable. It can often be difficult to positively identify the design origins of these models but if you put the description out in the public domain then someone somewhere might eventually come up with its history. She had the same problem with her Marblehead Pond Princess but we now are quite clear where it originated.

One problem with sailing these old pond yachts is the lack of suitable boating lakes with all round access as Braine steered or vane steered yachts often seem to have a mind of their own once you set them off. Although some might say it is cheating, we try to discretely add radio control of the rudder, and if possible the sails, with the option to revert back to Braine or vane steering.

On Elizabeth's Marblehead Pond Princess, we managed to squeeze a sailwinch into the hull through the 4 inch square hole in the deck and the rudder can be controlled via a servo mounted just below the hatch, connected to the rudder quadrant by a pair of 'push/pull' control wires. The yacht can be reverted back to vane steering quite easily and quickly. I am just in the process of fitting a similar system in her latest aquisition, a10 rater, also as yet unidentified. There are some pictures of Pond Princess on the forum if you want to have a look. I will post a link to the photos when I track them down.

Gareth

.

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Here is the link to the Pond Princess album. **LINK**

Unfortunately it does not show the rudder servo installation but I will post some pictures later tonight when I am back at home.

Gareth

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

Aha , three legs and no tail…..enjoying the weather?

Getting snowed on today.Am going to restore to sailing as she's so pretty.what species of tree for mast?

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Attached are a couple of photos showing the rudder servo installation on Pond Princess. Its a reasonably simple way of allowing the yacht to be sailed under basic radio control if you don't have a pond suitable for free sailing.

The control wires are brought over the edge of the hatch area through a couple of small pieces of plastic tube which act as a seal and are trapped under the hatch when it is screwed down

Note the corrosion on the threads at the clevis adjusters is due to the nasty salt water Kim uses in his lake in Ramsey.

In the past we have used a piece of pine dowel from B and Q as a material for a wooden mast. It might not be so easy to aquire where you are. I don't think the type of wood is that critical as long as it is straight grained and free from knots

Gareth

 

Edited By Gareth Jones on 29/01/2015 21:39:16

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

John,

Pine is the best if at all possible, table saw a length from a plank, and then there's the broom handle. Takes a bit of work with a plane and draw knife but at least it's in one piece. I have in the past made masts by glue 6 lengths of pine beading together into an oblong profile, and then worked it down to a nice tapered flared squashed oval shape as required. On that mast I also had to whittle the spreaders as they were of wood as well.

There's nought to stop you using aluminium for the mast, just get the thick walled type about 14mm diameter. It's a pity we live far apart, with two sea crossings between us, as I have second hand Al masts here that came from a Marblehead, I'm going to build a wooden mast for my marblehead as I did above.

BTW the method of mast construction was taken from a book titled 'build your own model yacht', and they managed to have it hollow in sections very similar to bamboo.

Gareth, salt water just loves clevis pins, I would get the nylon ones! And I like the temporary r/c fittings, just what I intend on the latest restoration, a 36R so as I can assess mast position and such. Temporary lines to the Braine for steering and sheeting too, just to override any settings made to keep it from the sides and returning to master.

Also Gareth, the Mount Murray Hotel over here has just closed (yesterday) so if you see Paul on your travels let him know.

Aye, Kim

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

broom handle works for me.gotta keep it all wooden.will post a few pics as and when.All the best guys and thanx.
J.

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

What a heathen somebody was, painting over that nice lined and varnished deck.

Gareth

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

On sight of that I was reaching for my furniture scraper! Please let us see a picture of the deck without that blistered gunk.

Dave M

[John GambleParticipant @johngamble41986]

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Thank you, John.

Dave M

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Absolutely glorious to discover that under the paint. Perhaps an owner wanted to disguise the model?

A thorough clean up, then a decent varnish coat. Now I'm wondering what the hull will be like.

And before you ask, not heard of a J Roach, yet, can you post the wording, can'y quite make it out from your photograph, thanks.

Kim

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

In the vintage model yacht site, under the small boat section, reference is made to a manufacturer named Roach. Might be worth further research as to what yachts this manufacturer produced.

http://www.vmyg.org.uk/small_boat_section.htm

[Gareth Morgan 2Participant @garethmorgan2]

This is a very interesting old model yacht and definitely not a Marblehead, in fact I would suspect that it is much older than the formation of the Marblehead Class. If the model was built to a particular National Class it is more likely to be the first 'Metre Rule' of 1907/08 that was rescinded immediately following World War 1, but there was a very active Model Yacht Club at Littlehampton that is also known to have sailed local classes.

A man by the name of J.Roach manned the Littlehampton lifeboat in the 1890's, as you are probably aware the town has along tradition of boat building and I would guess that he belonged to one of the families involved in the business. This yacht has a raked sternpost and I would guess that she dates from the period prior to World War 1, some further photos of her would be interesting.

Gareth Morgan

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