Graupner Glasgow

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Further progress made with this conversion. In order to raise the motor to the correct height for the gears to mesh a pair of handed aluminium brackets were made and are shown in the photograph.

I decided to keep the model on the 40mhz 4 channel Sanwa radio for the coming sailing season and additional motor suppression capacitors needed to be soldered on. The motor was supplied with the across terminals capacitor already fitted, however as a precaution two additional motor terminal to motor case ceramic bead capacitors were soldered in place.

Tony

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Tony

It's only a suggestion, but you could have made the pinion shaft a bit longer and fit an outboard bearing, to reduce the overhang

Would be nice?

Bob

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

That's an excellent idea Bob.

Motor shaft is 6mm diameter and the bore of the pinion is 5mm. The brass shaft adapter is an MFA 6 to 5 pre-made and is longer than I would have liked. I thought about having a shorter adapter made at a local engineers as I no longer have access to a lathe, the idea discounted as it probably will only be a drive system for one season before a twin motor chain drive conversion (similar to yours) is undertaken during next winters building period.

Further thoughts on your suggestion – it wouldn't be to difficult to use a longer 5mm shaft which would extend the through the pinion and then fix a support bracket to either the underside of the deck or the wooden floor.

Thanks,

Tony

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Just to mention that these MFA motors are VERY "noisy" electrically and MUST have three suppressor capacitors fitted. It's something of a myth that this isn't necessary if you're using 2.4GHz radio, because there are still large spikes of back-EMF voltage which would otherwise travel down the power lines to the speed controller and create a lot of mischief.
They cost pennies and are easily fitted, and they take away probably the largest potential source of radio problems in the model.
Do it – you know it makes sense!
Dave M

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Dave,

The worst motor I ever had for noise was a small little cheap nasty in a fishing boat. Even fitting capacitors didn't take all the noise away. I called at the local model shop and a technial rep was in at the time, he advised to fit diodes to take the noise away. I didn't do it, instead I bought a Monoperm with a manufactured suppressor extension which clipped on the back. It meant the additional work of making a new motor mount. Should have bought a decent motor in the first place.

To omit the capacitors (from this or any model) would mean firstly trying the model and hoping a problem doesn't occur. If it does, it would be a case of removing the motor and retro-fitting the caps — may as well fit them in the first place! As you rightly say the cost is minimal and fitting time is minutues whist the soldering iron is in use for soldering the leads on to the motor terminals.

My thoughts,

Tony

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Tony

My Ellie Cruiser runs dreadfully erratic……Nobody pointed  finger at motor interference!

I used to think that Capacitors were a waste of time!…..lol

But now, I realise that I may need them after all

Many thanks for highlighting the need

Will try it…..Bob

Edited By Bob Abell on 18/01/2014 07:45:15

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Bob

No-one would advise fitting something which serves no purpose. That would be a waste of time and money and would weaken the advisor's credibility. While there are "experts" who in reality don't know what they are talking about I try to avoid them and not be cast as one myself!

I have seen first-hand the result of a badly-soldered suppressor capacitor falling off which sailing. The model became uncontrollable (ESC stuck at half-throttle and rudder servo twitching like a mad thing). Fortunately no damage was done. I have also suggested to many customers the fitting of capacitors which has then eliminated the problems they were having (strangely nearly all of them believed the problem to be with the speed controller).

Diodes will do the same job but if you want to fit one to a motor which runs in either direction then the diode has to be of the bi-directional polarity type. The diode is simply soldered across the motor brush terminals, as Tony says, at the same time as you fit the cables. This is one I have used successfully on very noisy 12v motors **LINK**

Dave M

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Many thanks Dave

You weren`t awarded the Bob Abell award for nothing!

I will send for some right away!

When we had the inaugural sail, a few months ago, we all suspected the ESC

Anyway……….Fingers crossed

Thanks, once again……..Bob

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Dave,

I have a story about suppression capacitors that might interest you. Remind me to tell you the next time we meet. Its an aviation theme not model boats and not really appropriate for this site.

However on the subject of MFA motors, my experience is that they all seem to be electrically very noisy. Both my TID tug and Mountfleet Osprey originally had MFA geared motors and even with capacitors they were somewhat erratic and when run in reverse, the rudder servo twitched as if it had a mind of its own.

Gareth

Edited By Gareth Jones on 18/01/2014 15:18:14

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

I think I have mentioned before that the only way I could quieten the MFA geared motor in my Silver Mist was to wrap the motor in silver foil- this after fitting three capacitors. Luckily I only run the model at slow speeds, with short burst of higher speed, so overheating doesn't seem to be a problem. This was with a 2.4 radio as well.

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Got around to almost finishing this conversion, the next stage was to change the radio gear to 2.4ghz. I was really undecided whether to keep the model on 40mhz but it's no good living in the past (with r/c etc) and best to move forward.

That is where the fun begins. Bob, when you were building your Glasgow you asked about my ballast, which was described as concrete. It was, and it had been poured in AFTER the radio gear had been installed. The aerial wire for the 40mhz was buried in the mix and had to be cut, which was easy enough, but I decided to change the rudder servo which was also set in the concrete and what a job to get out. I thought about changing the plug on the Sanwa servo, but decided against this. Welcome to the Model Boats forum department of Civil Engineering, Construction or Building Trade, whatever it is called. I never thought a DIY hammer drill and masonry drill bit would be required on a model boat! The removal and enlarging the cut-out in the concrete ballast to fit the new servo wasn't easy, but I finally got there and sealed the concrete afterwards.

The wooden servo tray was re-fitted after and the new Hi-tec rudder servo installed. The tray is just glued on, but where possible I like a mechanical fixing and decided to make a screw in aluminium angle bracket. The bracket's holes match up with the holes of the re-sited switch bracket on the other side of the bulkhead (which will be shown with the next stage).

Bob, again with second hand models you had problems with the Starlet, I had earlier problems with the Glynn Guest Phantom and with problems with this, it makes me wonder about some of the build qualities of some of the second hand models on the market.

The above photographs show the ballast modifications and the rudder servo loosely in place.

The above two photographs show the rudder servo fitted and the angle bracket.

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Now for the rudder. Somehow the rudder always seems to get caught and the plastic arm has become loose on numerous occasions. Firstly, a rudder clamp was made for protection in the shed or house and during transport to the lake. Made from nothing more than two pieces of hardwood which act as a clamp, these can be simply removed when required.

As the plastic, kit supplied, rudder arm had become damaged where it was held tight by the lock washer, a new brass arm was made. The brass arm has an M3 thread and is held tight by the locking nut. The brass plate needed to be of an equivalent thickness to an M3 nut. The arms had to be filed thinner to suit the linkage connector.

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Now ready for a trial at the lake as the model is too large for the bath. Armed with a selection of lead pieces to re-adjust the ballast, a trip is planned, just need a little bit warmer weather. Can't say I fancy the thought of standing at a lake in the cold and wet. I will post photographs of the first sailing trip.

Photos showing the finished radio compartment, the finished motor compartment and the finished model with the re-designed paddle boxes.

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Meant to mention the steam paddle plant which came out of the model. Came across this in an old 1980's Model Boats magazine last week, a kit by Chart Models called Old Trafford. This is something along the lines of what is planned for the steam paddle plant to be installed in.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Tony

I've enjoyed the way you've overcome the little snags during your conversion!

The concrete ballast must have been a shock? How much ballast will you be using now?

I overheard a group of modellers at Ellesmere talking about ballast and I was interested in their comments

Imagine a large model full of water filled milk bottles, standing upright…..Nice idea?

The bottles act as ballast right enough, but any water in the bottles, above the water line, upset the model's stability !

I didn't realise this!

Glasgow is quite shallow and any lead above the waterline will do the same

The paddles, shafts, gears and boxes are quite heavy and must be responsible for paddler instability too!

Worth some thought?

All my paddlers were totally unstable without the drop down keel and when I get back on my Glasgow, that is what I intend to fit

It's all crystal clear now!…..Bob

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Bob,

Thanks for the good feedback on my Glasgow restoration. Nice to know someone still reads my jottings, Larry is having health issues again, Ian seems to have disappeared and Dave can't tell me off as I've not used any choc bloc connectors.

As earlier in the thread I have further plans for the model, conversion to individual paddle drive, the paintwork and deck need a re-furb, addition of a crew and the replacement of those horrible stick-on names with raised lettering. For this coming 2014 sailing season, the plan is to sail the model and start this further work in the coming autumn/winter.

Almost every model side wheel paddler builder complains of stability (with the exception very large models), however this was never an issue with the steam plant, but what will happen with this electric set-up is anyone's guess. It will be interesting to see your further progress with you Glasgow, as I may need to copy your idea.

Time now to start to make some progress with the Guardsman thread.

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

First sailing today at Bury Lido, under electric power. I was really pleased with how the model performed and thought I would post a few photographs. Really pleased to have made the change, no mess on the decks, fittings etc. no more worries about boiler certificate. Model is a pleasure to sail and further work is planned (as said earlier in the thread).

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Nice model Tony

But where`s the fizz?……..I like to see "work done" in the water texture!

How have you ballasted it?

Bob

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Hi Bob,

Thank-you for the good feedback. I am really pleased with the performance and how the model turned out. Unfortunately, I hit problems in what should have been a straightforward 'power plant exchange', e.g. concrete ballast (which now I think about it was so hard and due to the colour, could have had fine granite in the mix!). Normal domestic delays – acting head cook and bottle washer whist Mrs H. hasn't been too good, certainly slowed all model building, all I was fit for at evening was watching TV!

Ballast is a mixture of the remaining concrete and lead strips placed on each side of the wooden motor platform. I also added some lead sheet in the rear radio compartment to replace the drilled away concrete.

All in all, I think you can read the tone in my latest posts, I'm100% pleased with this model. The only drawback with today's sailing was the operator/owner (me) has now realised that I need my first pensioner aid – a pair of launching straps, I had great difficulty bending down to the water level from the concrete banks at Bury with quite a heavy model. Cutting out the slots in paddle box's to create vents, as against the kit supplied stickers is a real advantage, some times during sailing especially when changing from forward to reverse, water can be seen spilling out of these.

But where's the fizz? ….. I like to see "work done" in the water texture! — apologies, for not understanding this.

Looking forward to seeing the free Glynn Guest paddler plan in next months magazine.

Please remind me as to the outcome of your Glasgow?

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Tony

Work done in the water texture is my strange way of meaning water disturbance

Take a look at Waverley and you'll see what I mean about……Water disturbance!……It's awesome!

My Glasgow is in dry dock at the moment, awaiting the fitting of a keel type ballast

I would like a heavy model, low in the water, with the motor straining to make headway!

I might even drill a few holes in the floats!, to create a foam effect

Bob

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Hello Bob,

It is always difficult to re-create the water texture/water disturbance in model size and I hope you have success with the idea of drilling holes in the floats. Personally, I would be reluctant to drill the Graupner floats as they are no longer available, other than from the likes of ebay. I would be inclined to make some sacrificial floats for experimenting purposes.

The Waverley is a most impressive vessel and I've booked a sail on her this summer from Liverpool along the North Wales coast. A rather worrying report on her was in the winter 2013 Paddle Wheels magazine, here is an extract — "Waverley is now more than half way through her planned post-re-build life. It is not known when major work will be required or what outside help may then be available but one certainty is that she cannot earn the money herself".

To date, I've only sailed on one full sized paddler, the Austrian diesel powered vessel, Kaiser Franz Josef 1, which sails on the Wolgangsee. Recently her looks have been ruined in an attempt by the owners to re-create how she looked when steam powered. The photograph below is one I took in the 1986, before her looks were changed (for the worse – my thoughts).

Who knows, If I get the right numbers in the lottery or euromillions, I might buy my own full sized vessel – this Dutch paddler is up for sale — **LINK**

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