900-Ton barque

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900-Ton barque

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  • #87615
    Bob Abell 2
    Participant
      @bobabell2

      Thank you Bob, it was Garlandstone

      Bob

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      #87617
      Bob Wilson
      Participant
        @bobwilson59101

        lady elizabeth winch (large).jpglady elizabeth in poop (large).jpgLady Elizabeth: –

        Wearing drab dress, but an honourable stain,

        A lady you were, and a lady remain!

        lady elizabeth.jpg

        Edited By Bob Wilson on 06/05/2020 17:16:41

        #87618
        Bob Wilson
        Participant
          @bobwilson59101

          Lady Elisabet – 1879.

          lady elizabeth (large).jpg

          #87633
          Bob Abell 2
          Participant
            @bobabell2

            Hi Bob

            Looking at your excellent drawing and the ratio between the shallow hull compared to the enormous canvas area…

            I find it amazing that the ship doesn`t heel over in a strong Sou` Wester?

            It would be ok if the hull was very wide…..Or a Catamaran format?

            Bob

            #87635
            Ray Wood 3
            Participant
              @raywood3

              Hi Bob,

              They did heel over, but the worst job in the world must have been for the sailors sent aloft to take in sail when the conditions changed !!!!

              It must have been an amazing sight to see Cutty Sark doing 30 knots in the Southern Oceans 😃😃😃

              Regards Ray

              #87636
              Bob Wilson
              Participant
                @bobwilson59101

                They had very wide hull when compared to the length. But I very much doubt that the Cutty Sark ever reached 20 knots, never mind 30, and never won a tea race. Generally made good passages in the wool trade, but didn't carry very much cargo compared with the big iron and steel wool clippers. Sailing ships could not compete with the 8 – 10 knot tramp steamer that maintained their speed 24 hours a day and that is why sail died out – too slow – too dangerous –

                Bob

                .

                #87640
                Bob Wilson
                Participant
                  @bobwilson59101

                  Just for interest: Passage times.

                  Tea Race 1872

                  Norman Court – Macao – London, 17,143 miles – 96 days – Average speed 7.4 knots

                  Thermopylae – Shanghai – London, 17,205 miles – 115 days – Average speed 6.2 knots

                  Taitsing – Shanghai – London, 17,205 miles – 114 days – Average speed 6.2 knots

                  Cutty Sark – Shanghai – London – 17,205 miles – 122 days – Average speed – 5.8 knots

                  #87641
                  Bob Abell 2
                  Participant
                    @bobabell2

                    Wow that is informative!

                    Cutty Sark taking four months from Shanghai to London!

                    It makes me wonder why is was preserved and revered so much?

                    Thanks Bob

                    Bob

                    #87642
                    pete graham
                    Participant
                      @petegraham99294

                      I have been interested to follow the ongoing posts herewith, not least because of my family's involvement in European and coastal sail trade in the 1800s…..not quite to the same degree as the wind jammers though!!!.

                      Also, this seemed a good place to attract your attention to a post which I entered in a more remote topic.

                      "Full Size Ships" on 28th April . about St Helena.

                      Regards

                      Pete.

                      #87645
                      Bob Wilson
                      Participant
                        @bobwilson59101

                        Hi Pete,

                        I have just replied to the St Helena, posting. but don't know what you mean by two large white structures on deck.

                        Bob

                        #87647
                        Bob Wilson
                        Participant
                          @bobwilson59101

                          Look at this, the huge 2,127 ton Pass of Brander, a steel four-masted barque of very full hull lines, completed in 1890. In 1909, she ran from Cardiff to Callao, Peru around Cape Horn in 58 days, covering a total distance of 10,033 miles, giving an average speed of 7.2 knots. Probably with several thousand tons of coal as cargo. With steel masts and rigging, those big ships could really be driven far harder than flimsy wooden clippers and their average speeds were quite respectable as well.

                          Bob

                          pass of brander.jpg

                          #87679
                          Bob Abell 2
                          Participant
                            @bobabell2

                            Hi Bob, looking at your very nicely built model, it's hard to imagine where all the sails are stored and still have room for a worthwhile cargo?

                            Bob

                            #87684
                            Bob Wilson
                            Participant
                              @bobwilson59101

                              Hi Bob,

                              The big iron and steel ships had large sailrooms usually inside the poop deck. They usually had a brand new suit of sails that they would save for the hard weather parts like rounding the Horn, or winter North Atlantic, and a suit of worn sails for everyday use in warmer climates, plus a vast amount of new canvas in bolts two feet wide that the sailmaker could make new ones from. All folded up, they didn't take up all that much space, but were very heavy and hard to handle. But they didn't take up as much space as a steamship engineroom and the coal bunkers, so all of the hull below decks was open for cargo. A ship like the Preussen, below, could carry 8,000 tons of cargo –

                              Bob

                              preussen at anchor 25 ft to 1 in.jpg

                              #87685
                              Bob Abell 2
                              Participant
                                @bobabell2

                                Hi Bob

                                Looking at your model once again, I`m marvelling at the amount of ropeage required?

                                Suppose most of it came from Chatham Rope Works?

                                We have a famous village not too far away, Castleton in Derbyshire. It is famous for being a pretty village and the area has a number of Caverns. In Peak Cavern, there used to be a famous Rope Walk,, operated by an old chap. He spent all day walking up and down making ropes. He was the last man to do this. the cavern was large enough to acommodate a row of cottages. I suppose rope making was their only work. Charles Dickens once visited the site

                                I like looking at ropes, they are so well made and strong.

                                The Chatham Ropeworks appear quite often on TV and the winding machine is fascinating

                                Bob

                                #87686
                                Bob Wilson
                                Participant
                                  @bobwilson59101

                                  Hi Bob,

                                  The Preussen had about 26 miles of rigging! But ships like Preussen and Pass of Brander had steel masts and spars and most of the rigging was steel wire, so they could really be driven hard, but even so, they could not compete with 10-knot steamers. In my models, the masts, spars and rigging, including the ratlines are 100% metal, the rigging being fine copper wire. No knots anywhere! The 900-ton barque would have been rigged with rope, but in the model, it is all copper wire.

                                  Bob

                                  #87688
                                  Bob Abell 2
                                  Participant
                                    @bobabell2

                                    The rigging is a major attractive feature of your models, Bob

                                    Especially the natural sagging and the convincing dead eyes

                                    Bob

                                    #87694
                                    Bob Wilson
                                    Participant
                                      @bobwilson59101

                                      Rigging is easy enough with wire, but I must admit, deadeyes are rather tedious. I made 17 this morning. It shouldn have been 20, but I ruined three!frown

                                      Bob

                                      #87717
                                      neil hp
                                      Participant
                                        @neilhp

                                        we all do those tricks, Bob………but soon get over it, and plod on and make more, lol.

                                        #87719
                                        Bob Wilson
                                        Participant
                                          @bobwilson59101

                                          The ruination of three was a vast improvement. In the past, I ruined about 50% of them, but am getting better at it all the time. But I now have more than I need for the barque, It only took about 20 minutes to complete the 17, so it doesn't matter anyway!wink

                                          Bob

                                          #87723
                                          pete graham
                                          Participant
                                            @petegraham99294

                                            In a word Bob. how do you manufacture your deadeyes ….17 in 20 mins. sounds like mass production.

                                            I used to make mine from kids brown coloured mini. plastic knitting needles, sliced , and then drilled with the 3 holes. They didn't have the radiused face though and I don't think anyone noticed except me!

                                            Pete.

                                            #87724
                                            Bob Wilson
                                            Participant
                                              @bobwilson59101

                                              38 swg tinned copper wire wound on a small frame spacing via two 8ba bolts top and bottom. Small paper circles stuck on. When dry, cut the two outer wires from top and bottom, leaving just the centre ones – All very simple, and you couldn't really use this method for large models, but it looks great on miniatures.

                                              Bob

                                              tiny deadeyes -  (large).jpg

                                              deadeyes 2 (large).jpg

                                              #87727
                                              pete graham
                                              Participant
                                                @petegraham99294

                                                Thanks Bob, An absolute bulls eye mix of perfect authenticity and a very simple method……I think of my own approach to miniaturism as being quite inventive but I would never have dreamt of this solution.

                                                Pete.

                                                #87735
                                                Bob Wilson
                                                Participant
                                                  @bobwilson59101

                                                  The paper dots are telex tape punchings dyed black. I saved a couple of hundred thousand of them when I was using paper tape teleprinters, but they are all on electronic memories now. But I can mke small paper disks of various sizes with a home made cutter, but it is rather tedious, but I will certainly never run out of punchings.

                                                  I ran out of deadeys today, forgot about all the backstays. So I sat down and set up the jig for a further 78 pairs. A bit tedious, and they still need the extra wires trimming off when the glue is dry, but all done now!   The black horizontal line on the jig are drawn under the wires on paper, and just used as a guide for three rows of deadeyes.   

                                                  Bob

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Edited By Bob Wilson on 09/05/2020 19:58:33

                                                  #87830
                                                  Bob Wilson
                                                  Participant
                                                    @bobwilson59101

                                                    Tuesday, 12th May, 20202

                                                    900-ton barque

                                                    I have now completed the mizzen mast with all its standing and running rigging and furled sails. All of the shrouds and ratlines have been fitted to the fore and main masts. The next task is to complete all the standing rigging on the fore and main masts. This will consist of three topmasts backstays, two t'gallant backstays and one royal backstay on each side of each the two square-rigged masts. The model will then be ready for the ten yards for the square sails, five on the fore and five on the mainmast. I have also veneered the display case and started polishing the base.

                                                    Elsewhere, this model has been viewed over 1,000 times, so it appears to be a great success so far –

                                                    dscf6640 (large).jpg

                                                    #87831
                                                    Bob Abell 2
                                                    Participant
                                                      @bobabell2

                                                      Your thread deserves a 1000 views, Bob

                                                      You are the only member who does this sort of work

                                                      Bob

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