Wire query

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

Hi all,

My build instructions call for 1.5mm NS wire. Can some one tell me what the NS stands for please. It's to be used to form a door handle.

Kind regards, Glyn.

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

NS?

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Hi Glyn,

Based on the German version of the instructions (I assume you are still working on your pilot boat kit), I suspect that it means Neusilber, i.e. nickel plated or German silver wire.

Mattias

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Non-Stranded???? wots the wire connecting up? Ashley

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Not Supplied?

I suggest you use brass.

DM

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 10/03/2017 11:27:54

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

Hi,

My build instructions call for 1.5mm NS wire. Can some one tell me what the NS stands for please. It's to be used to form a door handle.

Kind regards, Glyn.

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Can some one tell me what the NS stands for please….

Perhaps Nickel Silver. A silvery copper alloy which is corrosion-resistant and decorative. Here is the first example I found on ebay: **LINK**

 

It's used a lot by the model railway people – rails are made out of it, and thin wire is used for hand-rails. But I like DM's 'not supplied'…..! More data can be found here…

**LINK**

 

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 10/03/2017 12:26:03

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Hello again, Glyn!

As I already wrote in my previous reply, and as DG has just said, too, it seems to be what the DE instructions call Neusilber and the EN instructions nickel silver, and there should be 3 metres of 1.5 mm such wire included in your kit.

If you look at the parts list for the kit, part 116 are the two doorhandles to be made up from "1.5×20 mm NS wire", and if you then look at the bottom of the next page, there is an enumeration of the wire furnished that also tells you which parts should be made up from which wire, and there it says "1.5 mm nickel-silver wire [length] 3 m [for parts nos] 62,63,67,78, 113,116,151,152,153".

Mattias

 

Edited By Banjoman on 10/03/2017 13:29:16

Edited By Banjoman on 10/03/2017 13:30:08

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

Cheers Mattias,

You know I never knew that info re what parts are to made from what was there. What an idiot I am must do better.

Anyway thanks for that I'm on it now. By the way what's the best adhesive for fixing the metal bits on, or into plastic?

Cheers all, Glyn.

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

No worries, Glen — we've all been there

For fixing metal to plastic, I would usually try either CA (cyano acrylate, aka super glue) glue or epoxy.

There are a number of brands of such glues. I usually use Zap CA glues and frequently also Zap epoxies (**LINK**). They are fairly easy to find, both in hobby stores and online. There are also other brands available that I'm sure are just as good, its just that I haven't tried them so I cannot compare.

I also adore the Zap Flexi-tips (**LINK**, second item on the page) — they're just perfect for applying very small quantities of glue with sufficient precision. Again, I have only ever tried them on Zap bottles, but they should fit most other brands, too. I usually get mine from Fast Lad Performance in Bansley (**LINK**).

I would also say that you need at least two different CA glues: one thick and one thin. The thick you use when the glue needs to applied to the surface before the peices are joined — it has a grab time of somewhere beteeen 30 and 60 seconds, so you need to be reasonably nimble, but you do have a short moment to actually join your pieces. The thin one grabs more or less instantly, and should basically only be used with capillary action, i.e. when you are able to hold the two pieces together in exactly the right position, with the joint to be glued perectly flush. If you then apply a small drop of thin CA to the edge of the joint, it will be pulled into the joint by capillary action, and you will at the same time aquire an uncle called Robert.

With epoxies, I usually prefer mix-your-own bottle sets because I find them much more economical than the syringes sold at DIY stores. I always mix epoxies by weight, using a set of precision scales (eaxct to the nearest 0,1 gram), both to ensure an even mix of base and hardener and to make sure that one bottle does not run out much sooner than the other. Such scales (here are some; the one I have is the M2000: **LINK**) are also perfect for mixing small quantities of paint, as you can be sure that you always get exactly the same amounts of each ingredient colour. However, if one does not want or feel the need for such an investment, one can always mix epoxy just by sight, and it will usually be good enough.

As always, if you are not familiar with the behaviour or properties of a glue that's new to you, try it out first on some scrap material before you apply it to your model!

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 10/03/2017 14:22:05

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

I've just been looking in the kit box, and there is no silver coloured wire at all. It's all brass, and brass colour. Secondly the list says it's supplied in a 3m length, (Why would the build,need 3m?) well,the box is only about 1 meter long, so can't see how it would have fitted anyway. I've had a google round and 1.5 mm silver appears unobtainable, so might have to done in brass.

I'll,carry on searching for i while first though.

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Oh, and if you use CA glues, you should also buy either a bottle of CA debonder or just some acetone (the active substance in the debonder), because, sooner or later, you will glue your fingers to either the model, a part or to themselves, and if you try to just pull hem apart, some skin will be removed in a fairly disagreeable way. If (when) this happens, don't panic; just grab the debonder bottle that you keep to hand, put some onto the unwanted joint, wait for 15 to 20 seconds, and hey presto! Freedom will be regained with no skin off your fingers

Mattias

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Glen,

The three meters of wire would not necessarily be supplied in one piece! Ten peices at 30 cm each would also make up a total of three meters, as would three of one metre each! And if you add up the lengths of all the parts 62,63, 67,78,113,116,151,152 and 153 you get 2450 mm, i.e. close enough that three metres is a reasonable amount to supply.

But yes: it is quite possible that the makers of the kit have changed the contents of the kit without updating the instructions (tsk, tsk — but it happens all the time).

The only reason I can think of to use nickel silver wire would be if it were to be left unpainted, in which case the silver look would make sense. Otherwise, you ought to be just as well off with brass wire.

Nickel silver wire is easy enough to find, I think: a quick google turned up this link for instance: **LINK**, and I'm sure there are other suppliers as well.

However, if I were you, I would get off an e-mail to Aero-Naut, and ask them if they have indeed replaced the specified nickel silver wire with e.g. brass, or if it should be nickel silver, and something is thus missing from your kit.

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 10/03/2017 14:38:51

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Could the NS refer to Nitrogen cryogenic treated materials that can withstand repeated thermal cycling

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Paul,

I very much doubt that – Greg is, as you may recall from his previous threads, building the Aero-naut pilot boat kit, and if you take a look at p. 18 of the instructions for said kit (**LINK**), at the bottom of that page it clearly specifies that part 116 (cf. p. 17 of the instructions) as well as some other bits (mainly railings) are to be made up out of 1.5 mm nickel-silver wire, of which three metres are supposed to be included. Apparently it's not, but has perhaps been replaced by a similar gauge brass wire which, if said parts are to be painted, would, I think, do equally well.

Mattias

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

For at least some of the low-down on nickel silver, our friend Wikipedia has the follwoing to say: **LINK**.

Nothing in that article makes me think that brass wouldn't be a perfect substitue in the circumstances, so maybe you should double-check the amount of brass wire furnished wth the kit, Greg?

Mattias

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Mattias

Fair enough, I just thought that the world of superconductors might have filtered down to modelling

Paul

[Charles OatesParticipant @charlesoates31738]

Brass is easy to use and perfectly acceptable. If you do want some nickel silver, apart from the specialist suppliers, most good model railway shops have it. I've been using a length of railway track to file door handles, locks fasteners etc from for ages. 1 piece has lasted me 10 years and still going strong. The advantage is that it doesn't tarnish as brass does, though a bit of varnish on the brass helps.

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

Well, thank you all for the help.

I reckon that brass rod has indeed been substituted for nickel rod. I have several 300 mm lengths supplied. That's ok except the dope escutcheons are silver and my door handles brass. Mrs C would not like that on the lounge door!

I am perfectly at home with CA glues, has I've been constructing model aircraft using the stuff for some years, but have never tried it on metal, but will do,so now, thanks Mattias for the info.

As I am not desperate for this rod, I will try to source the correct silver stuff, if only to save me the painting. Im learning a lot re painting plastic model boats. It's very time consuming, not at all easy (using rattle cans) oh, and I don't like it! Prefer aircraft covering with heat shrink sheets. I also wish I had purchased an airbrush kit before I started, too late now as the colours would not match, I guess. Definitely will do so, if I build another boat.

I have been taken aback with the time line. Really surprised how long it's takes. I'm not complaining, so much detail, and as you all know fiddly bits to do. A decent model plane I can do in 2 to 3 weeks, from start to maiden flight.

I'm still hoping to get the boat in the water this year though. Thinking about buying some thing that will sail straight out of the box, just so I can get something on the water, or is that a bit frowned upon in boat club circles?

As ever I thank you all for the help, and sorry to say to tell you, I'm sure I'll be here again glean knowledge from you guys.

Regards, Glyn.

PS I will email Aeronaut to see what they have to say about the silver nickel item.

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

It seems that I'm not the only one finding it difficult to source 1.5mm silver rod. I had this email from a supplier on eBay this morning.

Good morning Glyn

Many thanks for your enquiry received via our website – unfortunately, I have to advise that the item you require is currently out of stock.

My supplier has ceased manufacture of this & I am trying to find another source (so far, unsuccessfully).

Many thanks for your interest.

Best regards

Barry

B. Steventon

Metalsmith

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Glyn,

Bother.

I've had a quick gander, and found that, alas!, Albion Alloys only seem to do nickel silver up to 1.0 mm (**LINK**), and that the same is true for Knupfer (**LINK**) in Germany.

I'll do some further searching and if I find owt, I'll be sure to let you know.

Mattias

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

I found this **LINK**

Any good?

DM

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

More or less what I found. Albion do all,sizes but 1.5mm I guess that's why no one has any stock. Do let me know if you find some Mattias. Otherwise I'll go for 2mm I think.

Cheers, Glyn

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

The 1/16" found by Dave M. is near enough to 1.5 (at 1.5875 to be precise) as makes hardly any difference, though …

Or, if you are only going to use the nickel silver wire for the door handles anyway (all photos I find online of German pilot boats have the handrails painted the same orange as the hull, so those may just as well be made up from brass rod), I would for my part have been more inclined to go with the 1 mm wire — at 1:25 that would equal a 25 mm diameter handle, which to my mind is reasonably realistic, while a 2 mm one would be 50 mm in real life — and that is a bit heavy even for a heavy duty door handle, I would say!

Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 13/03/2017 12:08:09

[RumrationParticipant @rumration]

Hi both,

Thanks Dave, that looks good. I'll order a length. (Postage is steep don't u think!)

Mattias, it's not just for door handles, it's for all the hand rails (see pic) as well. I see that the Aeronaut model rails have been painted white, so I can't understand why they didn't use copper! I agree about the orange handles and will paint mine.

I was intending to leave the nickel silver as it comes, no painting.

Indebted as always guys,

Glyn.

[Author]

Posts