Why ban IC Engines?

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

Here is my Christmas controversy why have some clubs and local authorities banned internal combustion engines from model boat lakes?

I consider this as being a major infringement of my civil liberties.

What will be banned next: Steam because the boilers might explode or high speed electric because they are just to fast.

If this nanny state madness continues we will be left with un powered models on the end of a piece of string and having to produce risk assessments and method statements prior to launching.

I would value your honest comments

Paul

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Hi Paul,

I start your debate.

Regards to I/C engines: Noise pollution is not acceptable by most local councils now days, having received many complaints from local residents near to lakes.  These few people who have complained are the same people, who on a Sunday morning get out their I/C powered mowers and leaf blowers and make one hell of a racket, but the councils do not ban these  (probably because most councillors have one!).  Secondly, yes they are fast, and not suitable for use on a lot of lakes (New Brighton & Hoylake being just two).

Steam engines in boats – beautiful to watch – can not see these being banned, though they do carry a boiler safety certificate, which has to be tested at regular periods.

As for your civil rights,  I don’t think you or I have any, unless you belong to a minority group then the councils will go out of their way to make sure you keep them.

Sorry Paul – boat on a string – has already been banned on the grounds of health and safety – someone might trip over the string !

Cheers – Ken

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Ken

Thanks my friend for the reply.

As you can gather I have very strong opinions about this as I feel that I am being treated as some kind of inferior moron who can,t control himself let alone a model boat. What right have these dogooders got to limit my personal freedom.

Am I a terrorist? NO

Am I an escaped prisoner? NO

Have I broken any laws or rules? NO

Then why can’t I sail my I.C. powered boats at 8.00am on an empty lake when I can’t affect anybody else??

But as usuall most people who read these words just bury their heads in the sand and hope that the problem will go away.

Ye Gods don’t we have any fight left or are we just a nation of nodding yes men or do I have to belong to a minority ethnic group?

Paul

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Hi Paul,

These dogooders and health & safety "door handle heads"  will, I have no doubt, kill this country off.  I read of a guys company car had failed a health & safety check – Why ? – because it didn’t have a No Smoking sticker displayed! – this is a clipboard carrying office nut, since when has he been a qualified motor mechanic.  Seems to me that if the car had been leaking break fluid it would still be safe to drive so long as the sticker was displayed.

Also read, some 5-6 weeks ago, a fire brigade had received some new recliner chairs, sadly they were not allowed to use them until they had all been on a 2 day course on the correct way to use them !

So whats next ? – An army patrol just about to attack, and up pops jobsworth health & safety, "sorry, you can’t use those bullets, you may hurt someone" !

We should get the army to line these nuts up against a wall and shoot the lot of them (not forgetting to use soft, rubber bullets of course !) Health & Safety – rule 23, paragraph 5. section 3.

please note, whilst writing this, I am sat in my computer chair, seat belt fastened and using a soft flexible keyboard….  Damn! – just broke another nail.   Hello, is that claims direct…

Cheers – Ken

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Ken my dear friend.

I appreciate your comments and I fully agree with your sentiments however it would seem that nobody else on this site has an opinion.

This is such a shame as I had thought that these forthright writings would have fired a great deal of comments. good or bad, from our members but it appears that apathy rules the day.

It would appear that no matter what rules and regulations are imposed upon us by the faceless gray men we will make no comment nor defend our rights to sail our models as we see fit.

It is such a great shame

[Vinnie BraniganParticipant @vinniebranigan92297]

I think it’s more likely that Christmas rules the day. 

Vinnie 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Thanks Vinnie

I appreciate your and Kens comments but I feel that nobody else cares what happens to our pastime. I wish that I could blame it on christmas cheer (or lack of)

You won’t believe how important I feel this is but nobody seems to care. So why should I bother, I have somewhere to sail my boats so perhaps its a case of pull the ladder up Jack as I am alright.

Paul

[Vinnie BraniganParticipant @vinniebranigan92297]

Oh I’m sure they do Paul, it’s just that at this time of year, not everybody can sapre the time to look in and post a comment.

 Merry Christmas!

Vinnie 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Maybe your right Vinnie

Perhaps I should wait a few days and see if any other comments are forthcoming. But I am still disillusioned and don’t expect much more.

Merry Christmas to you and Carol

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Hi Paul, Vinnie,

No – don’t wait a couple of days – wait about 10 !, until about 02:00 – 03:00 everyone will then know how to solve every problem – won’t make any sense though – butt wheel slove ’em – Hic ….

Just a thought, how can everyone be busy with Christmas – that’s what we have wives for, wives do Christmas, we just tell them what they’ve forgotten !

Now if that doesn’t stir up a hornets nest, i don’t know what will !

Cheers – Ken

[Sam VimesParticipant @samvimes38365]

Paul

Please dont get so upset, some people just dont like committing themselves. I am sure that most model boaters would agree with your sentiments.

But I dont understand what Ken means

Sam

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Thanks Sam

I do hope that other model boaters feel the same but somehow I doubt it.

Ye Gods this is very serious, does anybody else care?

Paul

[Kevin BellmanParticipant @kevinbellman86047]

Hi Paul,

You talk about civil liberties.. I cant go to the pub and have a couple of pints/fags and put the world to rights.

On a more serious note I have to agree with you to a point. Banning them on the grounds of noise pollution (which i believe is the most common reason) is a joke. I have made my garden low maintenance, I dont own a lawn mower, strimmer or blower – but come a warm day I like to relax in the hammock with the gin. No chance – I’m surrounded by petrol heads

The lake I use is in two parts, ideal, the high speed i.c. boats use one part and the more sedate/fragile use the other.

Therein is the problem with many clubs. We have all seen the guy with a few bob flogged a ARTR ballistic missile who thinks its great fun to weave in and around boats that have been a labour of love for perhaps many months/years.

Perhaps we could have 12bore armed Marshall’s on the side

Seasons Greeting to all (Hope thats PC)

Kevin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Kevin

I would agree that the problem of idiots is something that has to be addressed but we get idiots in all walks of life. Motorists for example, some car drivers are absolute lunatics who think they own the road and make everybody’s life a misery.

But we don’t ban the use of cars just to stop the idiots so why ban i.c. engines in model boats.

As for noise pollution we are surrounded by car / house alarms, jet washers, strimmers and kids on mopeds all of which exceed the 84db noise level but they have not been banned.

Nor has anyone banned the use of radio controlled buggies or aircraft and they use the same engines

It just seems as though the model boater is a soft touch and easy to bully.

Paul

[David B7Participant @davidb7]

hi Paul

good to hear you are trying to put the world to rights

i agree that there is a lot to be sead about banning i/c boats but don’t understand y

yes if thy are a noise problem to the people living close to the lake,

 but it should be monitored and if it is above the legal limit then that particular boat should be band,  until it is silenced to bellow this limit, and not just ban all i/c boats altogether

if it is a water pollution problem then how can we get them to stop putting oil in the water as it is inherent of the i/c motor

and surly the clubs can allocate times when i/c can be on the pond/lake for a time then the others,

 cum lads their is such a thing as give and take between friends

David

mary Christmas to all

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi David

Thank you for your incisive comments, I agree with all that you have said.

The problem of refuling need not be a problem if people used the correct liquid tight systems for fuel transfer such as the model aircraft guys use.

I think that some clubs have just stuffed their heads in the sand to avoid having to deal with what they view as a problem.

I should add to this that I have heard of some clubs that have made exceptions for i.c. powered boats by regulating their use to certain areas of the lake after having proved the owners ability to control and safely manage the model.

Paul

[Len OchiltreeParticipant @lenochiltree67043]

If I can squeeze in my twopennorth,I have never seen a boat with IC just pootle about,they all seem to be racers and it only takes one irresponsible opperative and as happened at a lake in mid Kent a couple of ducks were killed,this gives a bad name to all boat users.

Merry Christmas to all, I have to work on Christmas Day!!   

  Len

[Sam VimesParticipant @samvimes38365]

Hi Len

Shame you have to work on christmas day I hope that you are on good money for it.

I understand Pauls point he likes to build big models (have a look at the big boat on his gallery) and these boats just can’t be powered by electric as they are to big and heavy. I also know that his favorite engine is a 4 stroke lawnmower unit and no matter how it is geared it can do not much more than pootle.

Sam

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Sam

Thanks for that your support is as steadfast as ever.

Even my smaller i.c. engines can be made to pootle and with the right exhaust can be very quiet.

But I despair of being able to use them in the water ever again.

Merry Christmas

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Merry Christmas everyone.

I wish to thank all the people who have e mailed me about the subject of i.c. engines I have had an amazing response, obviously these people wish to keep their opinions private or they would have listed them on the site.

However the range of differing views has staggered me and if nobody objects, and I will not mention names or quote directly, then I shall summarise all the views / comments in an unbiased way and post them on this thread after New Year so there is still plenty of time to add your comment.

my e mail is [email protected] or post your views here on the site.

Thanks again to everybody who has taken part.

Paul 

[HS93Participant @hs9317166]

I started with Ic 40 plus years ago , then a lot of the lakes had no houses as close as they do now, and a lot of the boats where 4 stroke 9I had a Gannet) or diesel that did not rev as the modern Ic engines do , most people sailed on club days and they controled the noise, if it was loud you did not sail, a lot of lakes have lost the abilety to sail Ic because of noise and the health and saftey mob, peoples atertude has changed to "I bought it ill sail it" as with ic cars planes . if you live near a field that has scramble bikes on you may agree about noise being a pain in the neck, even full size motorsport events are limmited to how many days and for how long they can make noise, its not just the uk I was watching a bike race from ASEN Belgium and a race had been delayed they had to cut it short because of the noise ban after 5 30 pm so in a way we have modelers to blame for fixing lower limits to noise and sticking to them.

Peter

Anyone want an Irvine 40 with tuned pipe and starter still in box un run ?

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

Thank you all again for the e mail replies and please keep them coming in as all comments are really welcome.

Although I’m not sure that I fit the category of dinosaur nor "agent provocateur" (I had to look that one up)

All the best

Paul

[HS93Participant @hs9317166]

On my post last line of the main body should have read

so in a way we have modelers to blame for NOT fixing lower limits to noise and sticking to them.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Thanks HS 93

I did wonder when I read you posting.

Thanks for the contribution

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

To fit IC or not to fit IC? (That is the question)

 As more and more diverse comments arrive by e mail I have come to realise that my little gripe has raised some serious and controversial questions, not only with regard to the problems of fitting and running I.C. engines but the deeper question of the freedom of choice to actually use these engines.

When I started this little debate I have to admit to having an axe to grind with regard to the faceless busybodies who won’t let me sail my I.C. boats but I did not expect the level or the intensity of response that I have received. 

The views of the members are wide ranging and in some cases very explicit especially from the members who have owned and sailed I.C. models for years without any problems only to find that their local authority or even worse their own club have banned the use of such models and in some cases the decision was made virtually overnight.

What has become very clear is the overwhelming view of most respondents is that using noise and pollution as reasons for the blanket banning of these engines is ridiculous as many other public activities such as gardening or jet washing make far more noise and that any pollution caused by these models is nothing compared to the damage caused to the environment by the full size pleasure and working craft that populate our rivers and waterways.

Continued.

[Author]

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