Unusual builders models

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

.Accompanying research into a future article I came across this really unusual builder’s model of the Mersey Ferry PS Claughton. It is the only Mersey Ferry to be both a double ender and have inboard paddles. Built by D&W Henderson's and Co Glasgow circa 1876. This would make a fascinating model but could become an issue as to the direction of the model when under power. Astern or ahead?

Dave Wooley

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Dave,

Nice old ferry design. I was interested in finding more information on the small paddle steamers that called in at Eastham Ferry on the Mersey. Has the next model case got one of those in it?

Philh

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

A very interesting ship, and a very interesting model, too!

An aquaintance of mine is busy with a model of a later but similar ferry, the Gothenburg river ferry Färjan 4, i.e. Ferru No 4, a double ended steam passenger ferry, built in 1920 that remained in regular traffic until around 1950 and as a backup ferry until 1970, and since then has become a working museum ship in Gothenburg (**LINK** — page in Swedish only, it seems — or, for a better photo, see **LINK**).

/Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 25/11/2015 13:33:44

Edited By Banjoman on 25/11/2015 13:34:31

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dave

Thank you for giving me a genuine engineering conundrum to think about.

Did you, by any chance take some more photos of this unusual ship specifically the lower hull around the paddle wheels?

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

It would be interesting to know the relative efficiencies of outboard and inboard paddle wheels. I believe that the slots on the paddle boxes of outboard wheels are intended to dissipate any build up of pressure within the boxes which would impose resistance to the rotation of the paddles. Inboard paddles are more protected (which is why they were used on some American early ironclad designs) but I have never read anything commenting on their efficiency although they obviously did work.

Colin

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

but could become an issue as to the direction of the model when under power. Astern or ahead?

Surely, whichever way it's going, it's going forwards?

At least it only has a choice of two ways to go. This one must get even more confused…

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

This has got me stumped…..the lower hull just doesn't make sense!

The bottom of the paddles aren't visible and the shape of the hull doesn't allow for the free-flow of water to and from the paddles.

I have spent the afternoon trying to figure this out.

Has anyone got any design information relating to this very unusual ship.

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Phil there are many related models in this superb collection, I’ll have a closer look at my pictures.

Hi Banjoman Double Enders where not unusual but combining the idea with inboard paddles may be unique.

Hi Paul I just wonder what the command would be to the helm .No go astern, no forward, . I would hazard a guess and having some experience of being at the helm of a Mersey ferry , it all depends on the tide and the strength and direction of the wind whether a ferry goes starboard or port side to . So any instructions by the skipper on the PS Claughton on which direction to take when departing any of the stages could be dependent on a visual command abandoning the standard instructions for astern or ahead , just speculating as I have no idea what so ever, over to you Paul.

Hi Colin I seem to remember a free plan in Model Boats some years back , could have been one of Glyn Guest plans showing a stern wheeler with an fully enclosed paddle box . What Paul mentioned about pictures of the underside of the hull might reveal some interesting details; I guess a working model might in fact answer a few more questions and be fun to operate ,

Hi DG Yes the Popov design was a floating pig to steer .Ian Kennedy built such a craft and I remember with disbelief how he managed to successfully steer { if that’s the right word } his model around the MPBA scale nationals course . As you say port, starboard forward, astern where relative terms. As akin to a hovercraft you could be going to port yet at the same time be moving at the same speed forward.

Thank you all for your interest

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Dave

I don't think that there would have been any problems with steering or forward / astern. I presume that the two handles mounted on the raised dais (bang in the middle of the ship) are the method of steering and from this position the helmsman would have no problem in deciding on which direction to steer the ship.

But I still don't know how those infernal paddle wheels worked.

Paul

sorry for the pun but this is driving me mad

Bob have you ever come across this ship?

Edited By Paul T on 25/11/2015 20:31:44

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

There is a clue in this article which suggests that the internal paddle box had air forced into it.:

**LINK**

There was a model of a manually powered catamaran paddle ship called Experiment of Leith built by Alan Ludbrook and exhibited at the 2013 ME Exhibition:

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/model-engineer-exhibition-2013/17912

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 25/11/2015 21:02:36

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Paul

If you look at the general view of the ship, the paddles appear to be well immersed in the water

With the paddles enclosed in boxes with side walls, they should be quite efficient, as there would be no water slipping off the paddles. I assume the boxes will have generous entry ports

Not seen any pictures of the full size craft though

I did post a photo a few years ago, that had paddles at both ends of the ship……Not much chance of finding it now though

All the best, my mate

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Bob

Its the entry and exit of the water and the active portion of the paddles that has me stumped, I just cant figure out how the bleeping thing worked.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

There has to be some means of introducing air into the paddle box otherwise you could get a sort of hydraulic lock as the wheel rotates. Maybe it was open at the top?

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Colin

Its a conundrum

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I knew it must be some sort of drum!

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Solved it.

The photos are deceptive and Daves description is misleading.

The builders model doesn't show the paddles because they were left off. If you look at the hull carefully you will see the upper section oversails the lower hull at the point where the paddles should be.

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

. Hi Paul Why would the model builder leave the paddles off, it doesn’t add up. Here is a picture of the paddle Ferry Birkenhead, normal bow and stern arrangement. My guess is the paddles where inboard for a reason , perhaps as an experiment as it made the paddles less vulnerable to damage when pulling alongside the pier. I saw first-hand how tricky it was bringing the Waverly alongside the liner terminal.

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Dave

Its a nice theory and would have made a very interesting model but as the photo show the ship had external paddles.

Unless the ship was built with inboard paddles which didn't work and the photo shows the ship at a later date after the paddle covers were removed.

More research is needed.

Paul

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Well Paul you have the evidence to show the PS Claughton did indeed have conventional paddles, . Perhaps the model preceded the build and showed a different arrangement . As you say more research is needed . Yet it would be interesting for a model to test , lets say the original design.

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Details about this particular little ship are proving very difficult to track down.

I've been through a dozen on line archives including the royal collection but found very little.

Edited By Paul T on 27/11/2015 16:55:29

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