Transitioning

[Peter CrowParticipant @petercrow25030]

Hi, chaps. I took up model boating on reaching the bench mark age of 60 and in the past 4 years have scratch built a couple of electric powered models, including a 1/96 scale Castle Class Corvette, and I have on the stocks a modified Black Swan Class Sloop (1/128 scale) and a 1/32 scale Clyde Puffer.

I find that I have other desires! I have become besotted with the idea of going 'au naturel' and trying my hand at sailing a sailing boat. This is where I need advice and guidance.

For the time being, my modelling needs are being satisfied by my ongoing projects, so I am considering going against the grain and buying an RTR sailing craft so that I can dabble about and see if this branch of the hobby is really for me. It needs to be compact and easily transportable, and I'm not looking to spend mega bucks in case I don't get on with it.

I learned how to sail in my teens so have some knowledge of the techniques of the full-size business of reaching, sailing close-hauled, etc. and brushed up on my early experiences by taking out a hired dinghy off Ibiza in the late 1980s!

As to sailing models, "I am from Barcelona and know nothing," in the words of Basil Fawlty's Manuel!

To the point, or points, at last.

Catamaran or monohull? I rather like the look of the Joysway Binary (cat) and their Orion (mono). The catamaran is particularly appealing for some reason, but I can't help thinking that it may be a bad idea for a total beginner. At least if a monohull is put down by a gust, it has a reasonable chance of self-righting. A cat would need to rescued by somebody wearing waders! (me!).

Am I barking up the right sort of trees with my early thoughts, or am I just plain barking? All wisdom will be welcomed and gratefully received.

 

 

 

Edited By Peter Crow on 17/03/2019 23:03:26

[Peter CrowParticipant @petercrow25030]

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

I have followed a similar route and whilst building bought a HydroPro Affinity 650, which is very similar to the Dragonforce 65, but a bit cheaper. Just needed rigging.

Sails really well and is just the job for learning sailing and not too big for transporting in the car.

Chris

 

 

Edited By Chris Fellows on 17/03/2019 23:19:29

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

As a beginner to windy boats, avoid cats like the plague. When a cat falls over, it stays that way until it gets rescued. A monohull, with a bit of luck, either goes faster or staggers a bit then gets itself up again after the gust has passed.

Choice is largely a matter of space available – I can easily carry a rigged Victoria in the back of my car, a rigged 1 metre boat needs the back seats folded down. I prefer to avoid lakeside rigging. Generally, the bigger a yacht, the easier it is to sail, and the more tolerant to minor errors. Racing type yachts tend to need deep water because of their long fin. Best make sure that your lake is deep enough.

Having said all that, the Joysway Orion, small as it is, performs very well once the owner reads the instruction book.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Peter,

I would recommend the Micro Magic they are very compact and sail really well, I must admit I bought mine already built, and I gather they are not that easy to assemble, but with your boat building experience that should not be a problem for you 😀

Regards Ray

[Peter CrowParticipant @petercrow25030]

Thanks for your replies, Gentlemen.

The monohull wins hands down over the catamaran.

It is now time to do some surfing and pull together as much information as possible to inform my decision on which model to buy.

I'm grateful to you,

Regards,

Peter

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

peter, have you thought of following your scale theme, and buying a ready built scale sailing boat. there are some beautiful scale built sailing vessels on ebay, and they go for a song. this 5 ton gaff yawl, double diagonal planked with all fittings in brass ans steel, plus motor and auxiliary prop shaft/propeller I bought for just 62 quid late last year……..and since I bought this, I could have had a Morecambe bay prawner, a Bristol pilot cutter and a jolie brize, all for less than 200 sobs each.

 

see my album….                      5 ton gaff yawl.                         …..might be something different to think about……..I know I am going to enjoy sailing it this summer.

Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 18/03/2019 22:49:02

[Peter CrowParticipant @petercrow25030]

Neil. Many thanks for your ideas. All I have to do first is to find out (1) if I can control a sailing boat and (2) whether I get enjoyment from the experience. If these outcomes are positive, then I can look forward to myriad possibilities for the future, thanks to you and fellow forum members.

I've ordered a Joysway Orion (due to arrive tomorrow). With some careful attention to assembly, I hope to have it ready to sail on the Club water quite soon (possibly NOT on a regular Club day – I think that I'd prefer to get my beginner's blunders out of the way in private!).

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Today's your big day Peter and I hope you will be unpacking your Orion later on.

Answering your questions:

1) Sailing a boat is not intuitive. You have to learn to do it and it helps if you have some basic understanding of how sails work. There is a lot of information on the internet, mainly for full size boats and dinghies but the principles are exactly the same. Click here to go to some information by the RYA (Royal Yachting Association). Everybody has the ability to sail a boat.

2) Well of course that depends but learning to sail can be a bit frustrating at times especially when getting to grips with sailing to windward (in the opposite direction to the wind). In this respect it is just like learning to ride a bike. Once learned never forgotten although if you take a big break you may be a bit wobbly. Having someone to help you will be a short cut through any frustration and hopefully put that big grin on your face from day one.

As to nipping down to the Club water on your own, I would suggest the complete opposite. We all make blunders when starting off but like learning to fly a model aircraft on your own, it is possible but generally recommended. Find someone who knows about sailing and this will really flatten your learning curve and almost certainly be more fun.

After that. it depends how much you want to put in. As I said, everyone can sail but race winners practice and never stop learning. There is something to learn every time you go out which is one of the principle fascinations. You are already hooked on the idea so good luck and bon voyage.

Tim R

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

What Tim said about solo sailing. Do the initial sessions with a trusted friend, preferably one familiar with sail. Or at least one with a rescue boat. Different conditions require changes in techniques that are not always, at first glance, logical. This is something that keeps the interest alive, you get a new set of challenges on every sailing session. Even sailing at Fleetwood, which is a basic oblong hole in the ground, kept my interest for quite a time before I rediscovered my present lake.

Once you have got the basics sorted, a yacht is a good thing to take for a walk. You get the chance to ponder life, the universe and everything, hopefully in pleasant surroundings. But be prepared for passers by to want to talk about it.

[Peter CrowParticipant @petercrow25030]

Thanks for your various observations on my inaugural sail which will, weather and other circumstances depending, be on the 1st Sunday in April. I therefore have time in hand to get the boat set up as carefully as I can.

I must say that my initial impressions are that the Orion offers quite a lot for not very much money but it does suffer from inadequate assembly instructions. The translation from Chinese to English can be quite entertaining and madly frustrating at the same time. It is often what is not said that can cause difficulty. I am glad that I have some knowledge and experience of full-size rigs on dinghies, albeit from longer ago than I can believe (so it wasn't just yesterday that I thrashed a Wayfarer about on Loch Earn?!).

As I assemble, a point arises. The access to the radio gear and electrics is by openings in both sides of the deck roughly amidships, and either side of the mast. A self-adhesive "patch" for each is supplied to keep the water out. That's fine for the boat's first sail, but I'll surely need to remove these for several reasons (check for water ingress; ventilate the interior of the hull; change batteries when necessary; etc, etc). There must be a limit to the number of times that these "hatch covers" can be removed and re-applied before they lose adhesion.

My question is: what do you guys use to renew them?

I have "surfed" the question and realise that it's not going to be enough to have a roll of any old sticky-backed plastic tape in my pondside first aid kit. I keep coming up with self-adhesive Dacron. Is this what I should be looking for, and from whence can I source it? Anything else that I can use? I have to say that I am somewhat apprehensive about putting a boat on the water that has ruddy great holes on it's deck with no reserve buoyancy in it's hull and relying on sticking plasters to keep it afloat!

 

 

 

Edited By Peter Crow on 27/03/2019 23:09:06

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

We have some very big holes in our International One Metres and self-adhesive Dacron is indeed the material used.

At this very moment I am making a new set for mine but first of all I made some templates in 3mm MDF so I can quickly and accurately cut spares. Eventually they do use their stick but how long they last depends very much on how you treat them. Always keep the backing material and if you remove a patch for any reason, immediately put it back on the backing to stop it getting contaminated with dirt and dust which are the biggest enemies. If you do this you should be able to re-use them many times.

The patches must go on dead flat with no wrinkles or they will leak and the easiest trick is to wet the area of the deck under the patch with water which has a few drops of detergent in it. A good alternative is domestic window cleaning fluid (not car stuff). The patch can then be slid into position and any wrinkles removed using a piece of plastic card as a squeegee. This is what the sign maker do with their vinyl lettering and designs.

It is very important that the edges are well stuck down and cannot catch on anything. I had a problem once where a hook on the sheeting system caught the edge of the patch and started to pull it off. Luckily the winch stalled and saved the day!

Here is a picture of my IOM (red one) hard to windward in a Regatta in a harbor in Mallorca.

Here the boat is emulating a submarine and relying totally on the integrity of those patches.

The boats usually have a drain plug high on the transom so it is easy to check if any water has got in and drain it.

The batteries are normally put into plastic screw-top pots together with an on-off switch. Changing them only takes a few seconds.

Here is the deck of my Galileo Resurrection. The main hatch for winch and steering servo access. It also allows access to remove the bolt retaining the keel. The small hatch gives access to the rudder stock and steering linkage. The rectangular patch is a hard point for a GoPro camera mount and the nearly round hole is for the screw top pot. The main hatches will be flush fitting and sealed around the edges with clear tape. This is much more reliable than having a hatch fitted over a coaming.

I hope this gives you some confidence.

Tim R

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Peter

I forgot to say the sticky back Dacron is used for making the numbers on sails and often off-cuts can be had for free from sailmakers.

Tim R

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Screw top pot was mentioned as a holder for radio and battery. I recently had cause to change one (old, second hand boat, only the bottom half of the pot there, and that quietly rotting) and noticed that a tropcal fish food container was the exact size. Not only that, but it had a handy lip to help form a seal with the deck. Costs more than a "proper" one, but only if you don't have a use for the contents.

[Peter CrowParticipant @petercrow25030]

Excellent! Templates made of Liteply from the patches supplied with the boat, and scanned copies of the patches saved to file in the very likely event that I 'temporarily mislay' the templates!

Now to source the material. I'm afraid that I have no contacts among the sail-making fraternity. Can I take it that I am looking for backed sheets rather than rolls of tape? The tape seems to aimed predominantly at the kitesurfing market. I cannot ascertain whether or not it has a backing. If it is not backed, that would presumably make it tricky to cut out shapes with much precision and one wouldn't have the backing to preserve/conserve removed patches. More research required!

I'm very grateful for the fixing tips. I shall also rather wistfully think of sailing in the Balearics as I stand by the side of our pond in the Scottish Borders in April!

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