Todays Boating

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

DG….if only.

​I do not know what will be allowed, likely only a notepad and pencil but this will be enough. I will make a list of things to look at. I might take a big roll of tracing paper???

​Ashley

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

All museum curators and archivists are caught between a rock and a hard place – they are starved of funds to maintain their stock and required to 'make a profit' from their assets, but at the same time they want to generate wider interest, appreciation and awareness of their stock. And concealing it and limiting access does not help this.

Rather than a pencil, you might like to use one of these… **LINK**

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Take the big photocopier, 3D scanner and a flasher!!!!!

[Ian JopsonParticipant @ianjopson21383]

Last time I went into an Archive (County Library rather than NMM) I was only allowed to take an A4 pad and pencil. No clipboard or penknife, and had to leave my bag at the desk. Cameras have changed so much in recent years (who would have imagined using your phone to take photos?) so it may be different now. If they don't allow full photos perhaps they will allow details of interest. At least you'll know which drawings you will want to purchase.

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Cameras can now be obtained which look like buttons, pens, glasses, USB sticks and key fobs – all for a few pounds, often under a fiver.

Attempts to limit people's access to information are being rendered nugatory by technology…

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

DG. That's silly money for something so sneaky it surely is a must have…

​Ian. Obviously I will take my camera as we will be trotting around the museum afterwards, and it doesn't hurt to ask does it? if you don't ask, you don't get. Never know, as you say, snaps of simply small details of interest would be wonderful.

Perhaps I can find someone with a photographic memory to go with !!
Ashley

​NB…Harry, over the top as usual !! ( I expect nothing less)

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

A bit of sweet talking and tell them if plans were sold to the public at a good price they can make a bit more money for the place.

We know you can talk them into to it !!!!!!

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I will have a notepad, pencil, tape measure and list of items to peruse, as well as the pictures of the thing wot I have found so far..so I can scribble details on them.

​The two books ordered have arrived and do not provide any useful info, but are interesting books none the less and the second MAY furnish "period" detail, not that this will be a rivet counter build.

​A large box arrived today stuffed with foam, epoxy resin, f/glass and so on. £122. Its getting serious. I may even break the £200 barrier with this one…how expensive ?????

​Paul. The first book contains another vessel with a symmetrical appearance!

​It also contains an old boat..the Victoria (and the Sans Pareil) 1887 or thereabouts, which had almost an HMS Nelson/Rodney configuration. I am tempted to make a simple model of it at the same scale as my Nelson to sail together and illustrate the advances and differences that a mere 40 years makes. Trouble is the Nelson is about 44×8 inches, the Victoria would be about 20 x 4 inches. Titchy.

​I have a willing volunteer to accompany me, I had to twist his arm mightily mind you. He will hate it there, all those old boat plans. Yuk.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I have decided, as the new project W is going to be a bit of a long job, or at least, will be slow starting, that a fill-in project is the way forward.

​No secrets this time, as it is just a bit of fun…it will be the Sans Pareil, at 1/193 scale….same scale as the Nelson, so I can sail them together. Please do not ask why such a funny scale….the Nelson happens to be approx. this scale as its what it works out to after having the drawing I obtained blown up to give me a hull just under 4 feet in length. As a non-strict scale model, the scale is unimportant to my mind. If you are working off a drawing, all you have to do is take measurements and its job done.

​The Sans will be approx. 20×4 as stated, but I should have no difficulty with room or stability as the hull is very deep. They were like icebergs these ships.

I have a pair of 3mm shafts, and 360 motors should be ok (in stock). The sides can be 0.8mm ply over 4mm ply or balsa frames (all in stock oddly enough): The ply will bend well enough to get a bit of shape at the front where the ram is and the hull will be of the flat bottom straight side configuration as favoured by a well known and prolific article writer (that could be me actually!).

​Access couldn't be easier as the entire superstructure is one block elevated above the main deck and can come off in one and be seated on a combing for best water ingress protection.

Ashley

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

If it had been 1:192 it would have been 16 feet to the inch.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

Looks like you will require a trailer for the electric bike!!!

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Malcolm. Yes I suppose I could have rounded the scale down by .001 to make a conventional scale!.

Harry. Trailer too bumpy for boats!

​The Sans is looking very small "in the wood" so as to speak, having laid a bit of balsa out and roughed up a hull sketch…., more like a plastic magic conversion . Single motor may be the order of the day, not twin. Still, we seem to be looking at a superstructure height of about 30mm, a hull depth of approx. 50mm, and a freeboard of almost nothing !!! perhaps 10mm. it will be watertight so a bit of swamping is not an issue., It is of course realistic, the boats were horribly wet in any sort of seaway.

​So saying, a balsa superstructure this big will weigh nothing, the turret (only one) will/can be turned Styrofoam and weigh 0.00001 of a gram (or thereabouts) as will the Styrofoam funnels, or I might make thgem from rolled up paper.

​Ashley

​Ashley

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by ashley needham on 22/07/2017 10:49:36:

…………….

​So saying, a balsa superstructure this big will weigh nothing, the turret (only one) will/can be turned Styrofoam and weigh 0.00001 of a gram (or thereabouts) as will the Styrofoam funnels, or I might make thgem from rolled up paper.

​Ashley

For a long time now I have made funnels and other such tubular structures from paper impregnated with 'Cascamite' (remember that?). A powdered urea-formaldehyde adhesive, this legendary glue is still on sale, though the requirement for mixing makes it less easy to use than modern products.

When dry, the paper/Cascamite mix is very hard and strong – very dent-resistant, a bit like thin ceramic….. and VERY light….

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

4 foot trailer with new project boat and a few other addons all the extra bits and pieces what weight will you end up with??

Balloon tyres, not bike tyres

All in the design mate!!!

I rough design my cousin kitchen, with her starter ideas in 30 minutes to a very workable one.

As I have been in the house many times the ideas have been talked about for years and different ideas, she is finally worked out a real idea of what will work, within a budget and little plumbing and electric work.

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Cascamite. Remember using it at school.

​Harry. I think you get a feel for what will work and what wont. certainly with the old projects I spend a few days mulling over the viability of something before starting. There's not much you cant make….whether it will work properly…that's a different matter!! Project W may be a case in point.

​After some faffing about last two days have started on the sans Pareil. Glued together several bits of 1/2" balsa sheet and strip for the base (as I have not got a single sheet), marked out the deck, marked out bulkheads/supports with the side width measurement marked.

​Dreamed up the bow underwater shape, marked and cut around line, cut hole for battery and motor, cut the stern bit off.

​Cut sheet balsa for bulkheads…will be reinforced by a few strips here and there, but the side plating and deck will keep the bits in position. Getting a sort of `ram bow` will be fun. I fully expect the 0/8mm ply to bend into a suitable shape round the bulkheads. Glued the stern bit on.

​The large hole is so the battery can fit in as low as possible. This hole will be plated with 1.5mm ply soon.

​Handily the entire rear structure will lift off in one, sitting on a 10mm or so combing so access will be easy although the model is small. The battery looks a bit big and heavy but should be ok (6 cell Nimh)

I know it looks a bit crude now but it will look super when done. I am using one prop: the original had two, but I didn't want to go buying extra bits, so single it is.

​Boating today….Argus, Project H (in line with the new policy of using first letter of the name as the code-word!)
Noel…tell them the awful tale of woe….

Ashley

 

Edited By ashley needham on 23/07/2017 18:30:16

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

The tale of woe.

I went down to Bushey Park today in good spirits. But all three boats I took failed!

I had a new (to me) destroyer which I got on ebay last week.

This ran brilliantly for about 1 minute, until it lost all propulsion.
Fortunately the little tug was more than up to the task of shoving the destroyer to the bank.
Here's the tug, which I have not shared a picture of before. She looks good with her fenders and crew now:

Lesson learned on the destroyer:
Propshafts don't work if grubscrews come undone!
And there was a bit of a leak. have to investigate in the bath.

Good news was the ex Toys-r-us speedboat now has a nice 380 motor, and a copper coiled water cooling rig.
This ran superbly. Just fast enough to entertain a young boy without being uncontrollable.
It ran superbly until the drive failed. Later this turned out to be another grub screw issue. Found floating around in the bottom.
Unfortunately drive failed in middle of pond.
No problem, another job for the tug.
Off it went, but distance from shore and stiff breeze made the rescue difficult. Both craft ended up drifting off to the floating weed-bank. Tug had also lost drive for some reason.

Now it gets interesting. The speedboat was close enough for shore to be in-range of Ashley's long fishing pole. East rescue, thanks Ashley.
Tug boat however about 40' out and in the weed. Too far for pole, too far for throwing lines out to it (we tried).
So, not to be defeated I removed my trousers and waded out into the weed/silt/murk.
Many large carp could be seen basking and feeding on the surface, anyway I digress, with Ashley's long pole and a fairly unpleasant wading session I was able to retrieve my final craft.
Hooray.
The boys thought this was a tremendous adventure.

So the moral of the story:

Take a big fishing pole!

Thanks Ashley!

No idea why the tug packed up out there, maybe weed jamming, all worked OK once back home.

Noel.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

At least you were wearing your Calvin Klein's, Noel

Ashley

​

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Just as well with all those carp about…

I sympathise with your driveline problems. I have been fiddling with my Revell Queen Mary 2 kit most of the weekend to get the running gear working apparently reliably including changing one of the propshafts.

However there was the benefit that as testing occurred in the bath there was no need to remove my trousers.

Colin

[Ian JopsonParticipant @ianjopson21383]

Nice to see photos of the new build. Thanks. Please continue as it progresses.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

Do we get pics of the wading session or did the camera break.

Project H, I am waiting for project L and it's full name!!!!

Remember one name is already used!!

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I did not want to embarrass Noel any more, especially as his two small boys were delighted and shouting "he`s got no trousers on" and "pants" in a loud voice, as they do.

​Ian. Yes build pictures at last of something. There is no plan. I am working off an enlarged side and top view line drawing which is a bit fuzzy. At such a small scale and small boat size it doesn't really matter for the aim of the build…ie a bit of fun. The construction of the boat resides in my head and not in a sketch. Today I should be able to fit the hull sides, in one piece either side, in 0/8mm ply.

My concern is trying to get a bit of shape for the ram at the bow. In this regard, bear in mind the freeboard is about 12mm and there is only 60mm of hull below the water. I will PROBABLY cut the hull sides to shape, sand the base and bulwarks to suit and glue a cocktail stick point in at the bow. I will glue the sides on first just in the centre (after making sure the bows meet nicely, and when dry use 5 min epoxy to fix the bows together, using finger pressure (for 6 mins). The cocktail stick will create the small bulge just at the ram point, and the glue will fill the small gaps.

​Luckily there are a couple of really good pictures of pukka models of the thing out there and they give all the detail you could want.

Bulkheads are 60mm high for the first half and 50mm high at the rear. The hull sides will meet the top of the front bullheads, and at the rear there will be an unsupported 10mm of hull top and this is where the combing will be glued on to inside, giving a small step so that the superstructure will be flush(ish) with the hull sides.

That's the plan, anyway. I have a 360 motor, 3mm propshaft, prop and a 2.3-3mm plastic coupling to use. The tube will need shortening by quite a bit, and the actual shaft will be brass, soldered on to the unthreaded prop (left over unused from something else)

​Ashley

[Ian JopsonParticipant @ianjopson21383]

You don't mention your picture source, but there's a good colour drawing of Victoria (sister) profile, front view and deck view, on pp 120-121 of the 'Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships and Battlecruisers' by Tony Gibbons, Salamander books 1983.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

`T internet is the picture source. Any number of good clean line drawings and photos of models. As you say…some are the Victoria.

​It is a bit shocking but when using bulkheads I do not religiously clamp to them when installing sides, as decent ply will curve sinuously and achieve a nice flowing line, and if on a couple of places the sides and bulkheads do not meet I fill with glue or slivers of wood, balsa in this case. As long as the sides are symmetrical. 0.8mm ply is a joy to work with…cuts easily, needs almost no preparation for a good painted finish.

​I have cut and glued the sides on now, and they are drying. The ram bow is in fact a thin section with side bars,,,,so I have just clamped the front together. It looks a bit dumpy just now, but the bottom needs another piece on it and the entire thing needs rounding off, and the rear cut up shaped…the reason for using 1/2 inch balsa.

​Ashley

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

Posted by harry smith 1 on 24/07/2017 08:17:04:

Hi Ashley

Do we get pics of the wading session or did the camera break.

Mercifully no one had a camera.

Had two goes at hosing the silt out of my shoes. Think they might need a trip in the washing machine!

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Ashley,

If your model is unfortunate enough to sink then it might end up like this:

**LINK**

Colin

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