Todays Boating

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry. What a fabulous view you have there ! Some boaters on this forum do have the most equisite waters to boat on.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Charging batts…but weather not too hopeful for tomorrow.

I have grappled with the charger and it says my Lipo is full up. OO er…yet to decide what to use it on to benefit from the lightness etc.

Proj no1 staying at home tomorrow as have been tinkering but forgotten the holes at the bottom that I was going to plate over. These need some sanding and so on before plugging and have run out of tinkering time now.

Proj No2 varnishing going great guns, Dust is the issue here; I need to do the final coat in the loft I have decided as this can be sealed up to prevent draughts and so on and will not be disturbed (the loft is like a room).

Eventually Proj No3; Have been talking to THE MAN again (the man I spoke to about proj No1) and he say that the material I wanted to use has some disadvantages, and as he explained these disadvantages I could see that they outweighed the ADvantages, much as it would have been a nice touch. Never mind, it will just mean more cutting-out.

Tomorrow…..not sure yet what to take … may out the Nelson and Alvis, possibly the Foam flyer to test teh Lipo out. and ferry of course,

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Nice boating today ! again nice over the pond

MFA Seahawk tried with lipo..but seems to be an issue with the ESC as there was no reverse, and the motor didnt start as promptly as it did last time…Did only a few quick circuits and took it out. Nelson, Alvis and Ferry all trundled around satsifactorally. Ferry used to nudge a fast`n`pointless off the log (say no more).

New chap down with a fast boat, speed700 bb turbo on 14V going very quickly, but was porpoising and twitchy in the turns. No ideas there, not experienced this before. Chap said it had always been twitchy..must be some sort of cure or process to eleiminate this behaviour…needs a racing type man for this.

Ashley

 

Edited By ashley needham on 21/06/2015 13:22:18

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Ash

An old cabinet maker once told me that there is no place safe from dust or humidity and his ideal location for applying varnish would be a deserted tropical island at dawn when there is no wind and before the insects come out.

No wind, no dust, no humidity, no little flies getting stuck on the new coat, nobody bothering him.

He would still be moaning if he found his perfect island.

No beer, no tobacco, no cooked dinners.

He taught me joinery bench work when I was a kid and he was the grumpiest old bug–r that I have ever met.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Paul. The alternative, once the paint has acheived sufficient flatness, may be to lightly go over everything with 1200 grade, and then polish with T-cut or something??

Trouble is, on the sort of mirror finish I shall be achieving any dust or hair or whateva will show horribly.

The 2nd alternative is I take pictures of the boat after a run when it has water splashed on it…

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Ashley

Your comment about sanding down after finish painting reminds me of the factory, where I got my Slo Mo veneer from, a few years ago

They made super duper painted kitchen furniture, where the paint finish was out of this world

You could almost see your face in it!………..What a gruesome thought….lol

They rubbed the paint down with 4000 grit paper and was very labour intensive…….But you've got all the time in the world!

Just thought I'd mention it, old chap

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Bob you young whippersnapper you. . I should think that 4000 grit paper felt just like ordinary paper…my one scrap of 1200 (used) feels as if its worn out!!

However its a thought, and any info can be filed away for future use. I hope that the yacht varnish CAN be polished with T-cut, as then something like 4000 grit would be fantastic just to finally flatten the surface without damage.

Ashley

[Mark Jarvis 2Participant @markjarvis2]

Hi Ashley

One problem can be solved, when you varnish your boat, rub down with a tac cloth, (from halfords or a paint supplyer) before you apply the varnish. when you sand the painted job do it with a damp cloth or sheet surrounding the work area, this will help to capture and hold the fine dust. finaly try useing cutting compound, used with a buffing wheel first then by hand, if you want a lifeboat type finish it will involve hours of painstaking sanding and buffing to get the mirror finish. dont bother with Tcut as it is quite weak, use comercial cutting compound such as 3M or G3, they come in different grades ranging from minute to finger ripping.

Good luck, it will be hard work even on a smallish hull, but worth the effort in the end.

Mark

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Mark and others. Thanks for these snippets. One bit has been done now and is more than acceptable. I would like to get a decent finish without resorting to buffing. I am not aiming for a mirror finish. The boat form does not lend itself to polishing or buffing too much and you will see why probably next year !

My sanding is using wet`n`dry, outside sitting on the garden bench so not a dust issue from this source. I will however use a tac-cloth, I have a packet purchased for proj no1 (this was car-can spray painted) and will dig them out pronto. I also have a brand new brush to use –no expense spared!

I am working today on the last few details for proj no1, and also the driver for proj no2. He is a "multipose" toy figure from some film series or other, and once his arms have been glued up to hold the steering wheel he will need filling, sculpting and re-painting. Mercifully his face is "ordinary" and has no scars/wounds or other marks and his body is not strewn with guns, grenades or other hardware. I do need something about 1/12 scale…this man is a touch under (like the Alvis men) and makes the boat look bigger than it should be, but I will keep looking. Unfortunately I need a figure from waist up, so these pilot type tops are no good, I need some arms on.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Last coat of varnish has gone on really well, and barring close inspection when handleable tonight, may be the last one. The final mirror finish is to mostly to do with dust as i see it. The overall finish is smooth. All the grain has been filled, and it all depends on the last coat that you apply…this current coat looks like glass and I dont suppose I shall get better other than by weeks more of hard work (and i have other stuff to do) and even then, its that last coat.

i dont think anyone will be dissapointed assuming I can capture the finish adequately in a photo. Preview to those in the know as soon as.

My driver looks ok after filling the arm articulation joints. I will leave the shoulder joints so the whole arm can move up and down in order to kjhdahlsd as per the hkjdf ksjhjkjk

Proj No3 has some . or at least WILL have some more veneering to do but I may have it sussed out now, and the finish does not need to be so over-the-top.

Ashley

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Finally MARCH MODEL BOATS MAG arrived in Tasmania, Australia.

INCAT launched another new ferry last week, I was sitting out on the back deck having a cupper!!!!

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry, thats a fair old delay !!!

Inspected varnish and the finish is quite good, absolutely minimal dust or anything else. just a bit of a run (only visible when looking across the surface in the sunlight) and I can give just this area some attention in a few days when hard and not have to do the rest of the boat. Result.

Just one small issue to do with control to sort out and I can take it back out and take snaps.

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Sorry it's the MAY Issue.

Is the Beachbaby on the July Cover is it a free full plan?

It looks a fair size boat with seven frames(including transom)?

The Sea Hornet has five at about 5" apart, so I was thinking the Beachbaby would be around 36".

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry, sorry no can help with plans as on ly an occaisional MB purchaser…

D|iscovered two runs on the varnishing. Only visible under intense scrutionation in the bright sunlight, but runs no less. Cant even feel them by running a finger over the runs. Have flatted off and will revarnish tonight.

Work to do on hatches though…although I did make engine hatch and cabin hatches, having veneered the boat, I find they need some remedial work…may be even make NEW hatches…will wait and see. I have also decided to wait for another week for the varnish to cure a bit more before doing anything elseto avoid finger marks and so on.

Friday I was a bit ill…felt a bit like flu…was running a temperature and felt completely drained. Went to bed at 2.30…got up sat at 9. Feel much better today, but still a bit drained. I have a band job Sunday afternoon and may not get to the pond as its an early off. If I feel ok I might pop down for a quick test of proj no1but will leave dead sharp 10ish

Ashley

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Is the Beachbaby on the July Cover is it a free full plan?

Nope. MM2105 is priced at £12.50 plus P&P. Model is 26" long with a beam of 7.1/2". Plans by MyHobbyStore; covering by Pretty Polly…………………

DM

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

So Dave my Sea Hornet 2015 we give the Beachbaby a run for the money???

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Dave

Suggestion for converting brush to brushless motors.

On reading the specs on the site of some of the brush motors , would it be an idea for a simple straight equivalent chart for people who have no electrical back ground?

e.g. I wish to change by boat to brushless motor from a 540 low noise on a planning hull 24"?

What brushless motor, ESC and Lipo Battery do I need?

Answer e.g. 3639-750KV on 2S would give you 5550 rpm and on 3S 8325 rpm for a bit more zip.

Battery NiCad 3300mah is about 340grams and a Lipo 3S 3300mah 60C is about 290grams(these are about the same size).

Esc 45A with handle the motor but going to a 60A for more options in motor and batteries later.

ALL SPECS ARE FROM INTERNET SITES INCLUDING CHINESE WATTS as quoted from the Chinese technical officer WONG WATTS.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Harry

A nice idea but there are so many variables involved e.g. voltage used, kv, torque, max current, prop size. I'd applaud anyone brave enough to start such a table but I have a very limited experience of these little monsters so I'm afraid it won't be me.

Dave M

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

As Dave says there are so many variables.

I was just going to make a short list of considerations…but the list juist isnt short!!

Project no2 has an outrunner and I have chosen one on basis that I needed a certain amount of revs (assuming 20% less than max unloaded revs) on the 7.2V battery I would be using, I wanted to turn an up-to largish prop (so needed a larger diameter outrunner) and the motor had to be a good "common" size so swaps wpould be easy if neccessary.

i also didnt want to many amps to be consumed.

Having checked out any amount of lists I arrived at a reasonably common make (for reliability and ease of swapping with similar motors) and so far the choice seems to be good. Would another motor be any better???? who knows, unless i fit another….

This one works well enouigh and thats that.

Ashley

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Looking forward to seeing "it" on the move in anger all nice and shiney.

Unfortunately, no boating this week-end (flower show) and away the next.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Dave

X over from brush to brushless is these little monsters are like seven times more powerful than the old stuff.

But the Beachbaby would have given you a taste of the power of these monsters.

As I think you only put in a little 1000-1200kv motor on 2S,not a 2836-3700kv on 4S!!!!!!

A little story my first brushless conversion was an old RC Tamiya Falcon buggy.

I replaced the super hot 540 on NiCad(7.4volts) with a cheap Trackstar 17.00T 2400kv .

Another 6000rpm and the battery and Esc weight lower, I would have a bit more zip.

I road tested by cruising past my house at 1/4 throttle(about the same speed as the old setup).

I hit the throttle and holy hell, wheel spin past the next house(the boys next door let out TOTAL SICK MAN).

60-70 feet stopped wheel spinning and was off like a rat up a drain pipe!!!

These little monsters a like the same size motor in an old Morris Minor with the power of a Ferrari.

These little monsters with Lipo batteries are have changed model boating.

We have members who will not change over but others who live and breath brush motors.

We pass them and run for 1/2 a hour, they swap batteries and go for a 10 minute run.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Harry

I think you may have it a little wrong – I didn't make or design Beach Baby; I just answered a question about its size. On the broader subject of brushless motors, they're fine if you want ultimate turbo-nutter performance from your model but many of the old geezers who read this forum run tugs, Clyde puffers, steam-paddlers and the like. We have a saying over here – "horses for courses" – and I think that holds true for the choice of motor type. You have to match the motor to the model. 53,280RPM might suit those whose ambition is to boil all the water from their lake, but I can even now imagine an old gentleman peer over the top of his spectacles and mutter a very Anglo-Saxon epithet at such a performance.
I'm now a confident user of brushless motors BUT I will still hold onto my collection of 555's, 385's and 720's for when I don't make a model powerboat. I still have the parts to make many more brushed speed controllers!

Dave M

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

DM is of course quite right , as above, and I shall not be reaching for a brushless motor anytime soom to put in a boat unless I need high performance.

That said, the other reason for using brushless is the smaller size and weight of them (for the required power)..

The last two, and the next, projects all have or will have brushless, and prinipally for the weight aspect. Project no2 also benefits from the squat nature of an outrunner, enabling direct drive in this case. For every other boat I have the brushed motors are fine.Indeed, brushless would be a hindrance, reuiring as they do an ESC per motor.

I had thought about brushlessing up my Sunderland to make it fast/takeoff/whatever, but I realised I would need 4 esc and then lost interest.

Ashley

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

If independent control of the motors is required, then one ESC per motor is required. On the other hand, as one gentleman on another forum has proved by doing it, if the motors, loads and lead lengths are identical, one ESC that can handle the combined load works perfectly well with sensorless motors. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2293170&page=3

It does really make sense – a sensorless brushless motor is really a small 3-phase motor which is locked to the phase and frequency of its supply. It doesn't really care what it is sharing with, as long as what it is sharing with doesn't hog the power available. Sensored motors, on the other hand, send information back to their ESC, that ESC can only listen to one.

There might be hope for the Sunderland yet.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Malcolm. Worth a thoiught that….means buying a set of motors to test with but not that expensive.

I could use a v-tail mixer and have wing steering then to make the boat completely weed-independant. I would only need two ESC, one for each wing.

The issue is mainly finding small brushless motors with 2mm shafts to suit the push-on props I have, they tend to be 1 or 1.5mm and meant for geared applications.. Small props are an issue.

Ashley

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