Todays Boating

[Empire ParkstoneParticipant @empireparkstone]

If they did flap maybe it might take off

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

No flaps on this bird, just me getting in a flap!

Half of the ‘bonnet’ (fore-deck) of the new project now done, so this only leaves the front portion and the cabin front windscreen bit (all foam).

As usual with these things, I am stuck trying to produce a reasonable representation of the original and am thus constrained as to what I can alter to get it working, but in this instance the underwater bit is all “up for grabs” in the modification department so I am hopeful.

One thing am worried about is directional stability, but pictures of Bob’s slipper upside down reminds me that strakes on the bottom would be effective in helping this. Other than that, the stability Malay also hopefully not be an issue as the boat is, well, boat shaped and not necessarily the best shape for the front prop….but we will see.

I have several sets of left and right hand props to try if it leanes more one way than the other, and I can always fit a long wedge order one of the stern lobes to correct a lean once it it is flying along.

Not what I envisaged in July’s mag, with the Diamond “leading” as it were over the Swordfish articles, (only in the fact that it comes before the other in page order!) One being a resto and the other a new build. However I can see where Lindsey is coming from, as the Diamond is perhaps more ‘weighty’ as an article that the Swordfish, especially as it’s 4 times bigger and about 10,000 % heavier!

Must tackle the saggy radio wires on the Diamond before the next outing.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Have re-done the aerials on the Diamond, using black carpet thread, wetted and dried under tension beforehand.

The masts are providing the tension so the lines stay straight.

Tomorrow….Bluebird, Tup, special secret projects and likely a lander that will stay in the car unless needed for recovery purposes, perish the thought.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

A man came down to take pictures of the boats yesterday. Just Richard and myself (I had a car load of boats)

I broke out the extra special secret projects, and made the man try one. He got the hang of it straight away, unlike the nice young mum just before, and in fact all the women before that (on previous days). I sensed that he immediately saw the difference in just looking at boats and actually controlling one.

Is it a man thing?

its such a shame we could not build the projects for a quick sale for under about £100. (Materials, motor/esc, r/c set, battery, charger). Even a lander (even cheaper to build) would ultimately cost as much.

The man enthused about using them for parties and so on, but to have 6 running boats and two spare ones, with spare r/c gear and batts etc would probably mean an investment of about a thousand pounds (need public liability insurance included)

As a retired person I couldn’t be a**ed with the hassle of course, but the man was sacked last year. Probably good money to be made, but…

Ashley

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

A few years ago I went to the National Maritime Museum in Falmouth and they had a large indoor tank where kids could play with RC model boats. I thought it was a brilliant idea and was certainly very popular with the kids.

The trouble is that it is a very different set up between a tank with high sides and a centralised control area and a bunch of excited kids on the side of a pond a few inches above the open water.  I don't think it is worth the risk for most clubs, I certainly couldn't be bothered writing the risk assessment!

Edited By Richard Simpson on 16/06/2021 13:25:59

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Too right Richard.

Tomorrow I will pop to the pond to test the latest project. It has a grey undercoat all over to waterproof it, but the hatches will need taping on. Exciting stuff…will it…won’t it… ?? (Move, that is….let alone go fast)

Had some trouble fitting the tiller arm, which is a nylon clamp type. There is precious little room to get at it, and it took me 20 mins or so, and in the end, by sharpening the rudder shaft at the top I could just lodge the tiller in place and push it down whilst wiggling the rudder by using a bit of thick bent aluminium strip.

Long term it’s not tight enough but will do for a quick test. I am resisting the temptation to spray it black as I might need spray rails and so on. The original didn’t have them, but there again, it didn’t work.

Ashley

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

Good luck Ashley – hope you got it right and it does not perform like the original !

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Well………

Prop catching water. Put some lumps of lead in the stern…bit better.

Shortened prop ends by 10mm, better still. Progressively applied power, boat moving quite well, decreased power….prop caught water…..boat turned upside down.

More work required!

Seems to have enough power so will shorten prop ends again. The originals prop seems far too small, and I think this is what I will end up with…good for originality at least. I can cut down a 7 inch prop (mine started as 6 inches) so I will have a good wide blade area to compensate for the missing length. Don’t think i will lack power as such, and I suppose it doesn’t need to go that fast.

Also did not lift as was hoping for, wondering if the air over the “bonnet” is actually pushing it down??

Will have to re-think the bow underwater shape. It is all styrofoam so easy to sand off the underneath part and….do what? Obviously I need a more solid wedge shape underneath to get more lift, and perhaps a long keel, like the Hobbies Hydro might be useful, as that boat had the same issue with prop torque turning the boat over.

Ashley

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Ashley, I'm not sure how close to the original you want to be as opposed to modifications that could have been done to the original to make it work. The trouble is when you are pulling it as opposed to pushing it the whole balance of the dynamics is upset. I don't think you would be able to do much to the hull to help lift it when by far the biggest force from the prop is simply pulling in the direction it is pointed at.

I think the most effective way to generate a little lift is to adjust the angle of the propeller. The problem that will then create is that the more lift you generate to get the prop out of the water, the less resistance the hull will have to torque reaction. The ideal solution would be either contra rotating props as per the Fairey Gannet or a prop pushing and a prop pulling, each rotating in opposite directions.

Assuming you do not want to go down the path of major surgery how about two stabiliser fins sticking out of the sides below the water or even just a pair of bilge keels to at least resist the torque reaction. The problem with static stabilising features such as those is that they only resist and are pretty crude. What would really help would be active stabiliser fins that you could control from the transmitter or which are linked to the motor input so the fin tilt is increased as the revs rise. I'm sure a single servo could control two stabiliser fins simultaneously and be connected into the receiver output to the speed controller with a 'Y' lead.

 

Edited By Richard Simpson on 17/06/2021 12:24:38

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Richard. You are dead right on the first two counts.

Unfortunately lifting the prop to gain clearance would only increase the leverage available from the prop, and as youi say, lifting too much would also have a very negative effect. The prop is angled upwaqrds to an angle that I think looks ok without being silly.

It turned over not due to torque but from the prop "leveraging" the boat over when it hit the water. Up till then (and it had only travelled perhaps 20 feet, it SEEMED to be ok…

I have trimmed the prop again, and have filed off the bump under the bow and am gluing a new bit of 20mm foam under for a different shape. I will also fit a long say 30mm deep keel between the step and the rudder.

I was expecting more rise I must say as it gathered speed, but I wasnt going that fast (in case) and perhaps there was some? The original appeared to hit the water when it encountered the wake from its turn.

All to play for!

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

The new 20mm foam layer is in place and roughly shaped to continue the downward face of the lower bow, am not going to refine it any more before testing.

I think I will use hot glue to stick on a keel for test purposes so it is easy to remove. If I do go with thekeel I will need to re-shape the rudder.

On the Hobbies Hydro the rudder sits as an extension of the keel, and pivots from the front face so it is flush with the keel rear and may be the reason the hydro does not lack manoeuvrability (unlike what you would think with such a long 35mm deep keel).

Must say I was not expecting the boat to flip, but that’s the trouble with building light (about 750g excl batt). Obviously the real one would not turn over!

the mrs’s phone says 100% precipitation today and most of next week….

Ashley

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

The word hydro gave me an idea Ashley , a lot of the early hydros had a step – some more than one , Think the Catalina also had one – not sure of that . The floats for a Piper Cub certainly have them as its very underpowered in its standard form (the Super Cub can "Prop Hang&quot. What about adding a step and spray rails to gives some lift ? Seem to have read somewhere its something to do with pressure at the step that helps with lift .

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

To be honest, nothing is off limits! The new foam will have a step or at least a sharp slope, as the step can cause drag at low speeds.

But from previous experience it’s best to only alter one thing at a time as sometimes the changes interact . I will try the extra foam first, then keel if the foam works but it’s unstable, large spray rails if the foam doesn’t work, more foam if needed, extra weight at the stern….different props (4 blade to further reduce torque)…

It’s bloomin raining of course now so likely unable to tes5 for a few days!

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Red

Most float planes that were built after WW1 had steps either in the main hull (Catalina, Sunderland etc) or on the floats, some really odd float planes were produced during WW2 as experimental prototypes, the Zero, ME109, FW190, Spitfire, Typhoon and even the Mosquito all had floats fitted with varying degrees of success.

As you correctly point out these steps were an important part of the design as they enabled the plane to 'break surface contact' and take to the air.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 18/06/2021 17:30:17

[Empire ParkstoneParticipant @empireparkstone]

Thought if landing on Floats were Sea planes or on hulls were Flying boats and smooth water not good for take offs which goes with breaking surface contact mention

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

The issue at the moment is lift, or lack of. WHEN I get it to go fast then I might need some steps….

However, I am keen to preserve the look of it so foils are (at the moment) not on the table as an option, but spray rails may be a definite .

I have just sold my Fantome to a nice man called Steve, thanks Steve, and so have .loads more room on the shelf for MORE BOATS!

Ashley.

[Kev.WParticipant @kev-w]

You can never have 'TOO' many boats, the empty room you have Ashley, just means more innovative designs are coming our way, thinking 'outside of the box' is your thing, it inspires others to make something different, we need that in this hobby.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ah Kev, how true, the Mrs has shoes, I have boats! Rain is going to scupper ongoing attempts to get the new one running for a while I think. I have not had an actual failure on any special so far, although the big Ecranoplan didn’t quite perform quite as well as I had hoped, it was blisteringly fast and looked amazing. Have a nasty feeling there may be, just may be, a fundamental flaw in the original design on this one…….

The articles for the July issue I must say look very nice (captions10 and 11 the wrong way round on Diamond, but it’s quite obvious which is which! ).

Almost a disappointment that the work on the Diamond is a bit invisible but of course that’s how it should be and no one will have seen the boat as it was built apart from the last owner!

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Cycled round the park yesterday. Water and floating duckweed covering the jetty almost completely.

might nip out at 9 ish to test new project and take a lander (just in case) but it is a bit grey although possibly brightening up??(bit early to tell).

 

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 20/06/2021 08:15:23

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

)Actually very nice out this morning. Weed and water covered jetty so no normal boating but did retest new project.

Great improvement I must say. Prop clear of water, but although once I biased the boat with some weights it went well at medium to low throttle settings, it seemed to get up to "a speed" and didn't really go much faster.

Some smoothing of the foam is required and then I will fit some substantial spray rails at the top of the new foam. This should make it clearer as to whats happening ad also perhaps increase the lift a bit.

Also, the motor is drawing 21 amps on the cut down prop and think that's way too much. Having had a quick measure, I think that a 2200Kv outrunner will fit on the same mount, and these motors on (say Trevors ITI racer) turn a 6 inch 4 blade or three blade prop and don't take anywhere near as much……12-14 or so amps, so I will order one to try. It will be smaller and produce less torque effect to boot.

Ashley

It didn't conk out or turn over so some success there….

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

)Actually very nice out this morning. Weed and water covered jetty so no normal boating but did retest new project.

Great improvement I must say. Prop clear of water, but although once I biased the boat with some weights it went well at medium to low throttle settings, it seemed to get up to "a speed" and didn't really go much faster.

Some smoothing of the foam is required and then I will fit some substantial spray rails at the top of the new foam. This should make it clearer as to whats happening ad also perhaps increase the lift a bit.

Also, the motor is drawing 21 amps on the cut down prop and think that's way too much. Having had a quick measure, I think that a 2200Kv outrunner will fit on the same mount, and these motors on (say Trevors ITI racer) turn a 6 inch 4 blade or three blade prop and don't take anywhere near as much……12-14 or so amps, so I will order one to try. It will be smaller and produce less torque effect to boot.

Ashley

It didn't conk out or turn over so some success there….

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Ashley

It is nice to see how you have branched out into publishing your own magazine, my copy arrived a couple of days ago and made for very interesting reading.

Paul

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

Great to see some progress Ashley – also think the 3 blader might be the answer – if there was an award for the most creative MB builder you would be quids in ……..

Might be nice if something along the lines of the challenge issued with the free plan by GGs of the Fairey Huntress Diana could be presented in a future magazine with one of your creative ideas

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Thought about plans before but I make too much up as I go along, and I only work to an outline drawing!

Progress of sorts. New motors ordered. It may be I have achieved all that this design has to offer already, but that’s not too bad. When it’s all painted and shiny it will look super even if it’s not as fast as one would like. In addition I will have proved the design, one way or another!

Paul. Yes, new mag. “Ashley’s boats” coming your way soon.

Ashley

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Posted by ashley needham on 20/06/2021 14:21:37:

Paul. Yes, new mag. “Ashley’s boats” coming your way soon.

Ashley

What is the rate of pay for contributors Ashley?

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