Todays Boating

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

AHarry. 41 is much toooo hot! 23 sounds more like it !

Removed old Park 370 motor from Ecranoplan. Two scalpel slits, undo two screws and unplug three wires. Easy.

The really good thing is that a speed 400 fits almost exactly on the mount, and a new card cover wrapped around it will only be about 2 or 3mm larger than the original (a speed 400 is same size as the new motor, roughly speaking.

Amazing is the size of the wires on the Park, very small, similarly the wires on the 160 watt Walrus motor also thin, much thinner than one would put on ones self.

Lastly…anyone with a flying machine over 250g now needs to register their model and take a test and pay 9 quid for a licence for the model (bound to keep on rising), so it is a good job all my non-flying boats are just that.

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 30/12/2019 15:25:22

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Only a complete nerd would pull three wires out a convoluted tail access hole in an Ecranoplan and believe that he could poke three more wires in easily.

I am that nerd.

After trying for probably 20 mins, I managed to get one wire in, and resorted to soldering three wires onto this in order to wheedle them in. Fortunately it worked ok.

Had delivery of servo tester, and having powered it up by using a good ESC, it works well…I twiddled several servos, chucked one away, all good stuff. Mum has loads of ring boxes in her loft and one of them was chosen to keep the unit in. Will get a receiver battery box to use to power it up next time. The LEDs are very bright! gave me a bit of a shock!

Making a stand for the Ecranoplan.

Ashley

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Walked on the beach and chilled out with about 2000 other people after watching all the brave go in the sea for the lifeboat.

Happy new year.

Bri

[Richard BarnettParticipant @richardbarnett67129]

Is that the mad new year swim in the sea thing? The hypothermia express!

Ricky ye pirate 🏴‍☠️

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I hope not!

New 2600Kv motor arrived today but not sure can fit on Ecranoplan.

Physically it fits but the wires stick out at an angle and there is nowhere to put the connectors!!

Although 28mm it is not the same size as a 400, and wont fit any of the ducted fan units I have!!

Has to go in the spares box, waiting another project.

Speaking of EDF units…I have 4 loafing and wonder if a light `bluebird` style boat could be built using one??? I may make a test vehicle from foam and see if any of the units are likely to be powerful enough,. They are all brushed motor powered, so…?

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Component shop have a 2600kv in runner 24mm in diameter with wires that appear to exit straight out the back which would be a good fit, likely, as the diameter would fit nicely within the existing cowl and the wires can go straight down t’hole .But out of stock!

i think I will enlarge the top of the wire hole to accommodate the connectors.

The larger motor diameter (24 ,up from the Park motors 20) and lower Kv ought to turn a 5.5 by 5 prop and give me more oomph. As I said, impressed by Noel’s 2600kv setup…although his is a 28mm item

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 03/01/2020 09:17:55

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

Motor I fitted is 2060kv, not 2600, and that was still plenty of revs on 3S. And speaking of ekranoplan, here is proposed enlarged rudder on mine:

Too much or just right?

[Richard BarnettParticipant @richardbarnett67129]

Wow! Noel, that’s got its own postcode!

maybe a tad taller but a bit thinner so it’s in keeping with the original would look better, just a thought, your call.

Templar ship sorted and sailing well now, just a few minor adjustments to do and a video to make. Will bring it on Sunday so you all can poke and prod! 👍

Ricky ye pirate 🏴‍☠️

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

Yes it looks a bit big in that shot.

Can't really be any taller as it won't look right sticking up above the engine cowl, but I wanted some more meat to it up the top where its in the airflow of the prop. Maybe I could chop off the last 25mm or so that sticks out the back?

[Richard BarnettParticipant @richardbarnett67129]

Maybe a bit more throw on the rudder? I know that’s not always possible. Considering the stick on extension you had last time worked well I wouldn’t go too overboard as it will spoil the look. A temporary extension is the way to go until Happy then go permanent.

The Templar ship keel weight has been cut down, re cast, moved at least 4 times so far and I’m still not 100% happy!

Ricky ye pirate 🏴‍☠️

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Even more impressed Noel; if only 2k Kv. I would add about 10mm as a strip on the rear and perhaps 12mm or 20mm as an extension to the top…either square on or triangular to keep the top level. That would keep the look and provide quite a big extension to the surface area. I don't think there is scope to have more rudder throw, its about max at the moment.

Its funny, mine steers ok ? But I suppose any deviation from the original makes a difference.

Templar ship sailing well?? with rear sail?? wow (if so).

Ashley

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

Toned it down a lot. Looks a lot more in keeping:

Will try a horn with multiple holes in it so can adjust the throw a bit.

[Richard BarnettParticipant @richardbarnett67129]

Yes Ashley, a quick shake down test yesterday afternoon was successful and now have more throw on the rudder as of tonight. We shall see on Sunday!

Ricky ye pirate 🏴‍☠️

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Just ordered a 4500Kv 64mm ducted fan. Will make my collection of brushed fans look a bit sad! Insane revs.

Going to make a stand-off scale Bluebird K7.

Plans hard to come by BUT the internet has furnished me with a 4 view drawing which I will use suitable enlarged for the purpose. Its the sort of thing I usually use anyway.

Weight will be the guiding factor methinks, and I foresee a balsa fuselage/foam sponson setup, with some carbon fibre struts perhaps or even balsa.

Undecided as to tomorrows selection for boating.

Ashley

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Ashley,

Depron is the way to light weight 😀 I have used it for the bridge deck between the Styrofoam hulls on my sailing cat,

That's a pretty serious fan unit , I'm using the FMS 50mm fan from 4Max for my jet provost.

I'm also thinking my original Wetjet design maybe better in depron & a brushless fan?

Regards Ray

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 04/01/2020 11:58:10

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 04/01/2020 11:58:48

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

You maybe right Ray but I will stick with balsa, likely.

EDF not a famous one, so not sure how good it might be, however looks like a 28mm motor, which should be easily replaceable if the worst happens. It baffles me how these motors work at such revs..what about the bearings and so on?

Not used Depron before, .does it bend? Bend with heat….sand? What glue would you use?

Ashley

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Ashley,

It has revolutionized model aeroplane building, half the weight of balsa construction, the white depron in the smaller thickness say 3mm & 2mm has become rare not sure why but Vitrex floor underlay for laminate is the same stuff only grey & 5mm thick 10 sheets from Home base only £17.99 = 9metres square !! Bends & rolls easily, glue with UHU Por or epoxy 😀

I started cutting out the bulkhead s for a light weight Remora to be glass clothed & water based resin as an experiment.

Regards Ray

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Hmmmmm.. Screwfix sells the same (and we have a screwfix only down the road). It looks a bit like styrofoam. I may purchase a bundle for testing.

Tomorrow I will have the Walrus, for tailplane elevator trials (and wing float height adjustment), the Valiant, and ferry..which has been de-christmassed.

Ashley.

nb it’s not too late for all you lurkers to turn up with a boat at Bushy tomorrow!

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ray. Screwfix appear to do a “fan-fold” Vitrex underlay pack, thickness 3mm !!

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Highlights from today’s boating. In no particular order

a) it was a bit nippy

b) Trevor’s edf dragonfly test float good, right waterline aft (his edf “only” has 3000kv motor!)

c)Noel’s ecranoplan now sporting enlarged tail rudder at last providing decent control

d) Peters tuggy boat tested ang going well. Impressive water monitor tower going up/down, turning AND squirting!

e) Richards Crusader boat sailing very well now. Hats off to him for getting it to work.

f) Forgot to take Lipos so couldn’t test Walrus. Doh!!

g) Ashley’s Valiant running smoothly but didn’t stop me from running into jetty (slowly)

Next week Trevor MAY have the edf Dragonfly out, and I MAY have Walrus out (with batts). uNLESS it snows when I will bring the Zis for photos.

Finally. Looked at a model airplane forum and was not keen on the Vitrex. Looked to me like it would need a lot of finishing off to look smooth, and as it not quite so cheap(£18 for a bundle…

yes I know that the individual sheets are not dear but you can’t buy just one! If I was paying the money I think I would stick to Styrofoam. I can see that it might have its uses, as Ray is showing for hull formers?.

Ashley

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Ashley,

Yes I bought the blue foam for my cat from 4D models thought it was very expensive, next time I went in they only had the grey styrofoam, still expensive as they don't sell that much and have to make a profit I know, the Vitex is so cheap in comparison bought for another purpose flooring. I will check out the Screwfix 3mm 😀 with the cost of running gear, which is really the only major outlay, I'm trying to keep the hulls cheap .

I will come sailing with you boys soon at Bushy when it warms up a bit 😀

Regards Ray

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Look forward to seeing you Ray!

They are only selling the blue foam in thinner sizes, so its grey for anything above about 15mm. It is slightly less dense, but not overly

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

GHaving an interesting time trying to redesign the Bluebird for smart ducted fan use, but being a bit stymied by not having the most important part, the EDF to hand for measuring.

I am aiming for a body weight of about 300g if at all possible, as weight is the enemy of EDF boats!

Also wondering where to place the fan. The body between the stern and cockpit is about 300mm…so is it best for efficiency, or at least, least power loss, to have the fan front middle or rear?It suits the model to have it in the middle, giving space for battery access etc and means the battery can be located just aft of centre to almost full forward, as I know how critical the c of g is on something like this. I would have a tube to duct the air out of the hull so as not to have any turbulence.

Currently the drawing is 500-ish mm long with a body width of 90mm (excluding sponsons), and 100mm high to allow a full diameter for the fan and air in/out, with a 30mm space under the space which is how deep my 3s Lipo is.

K7 had a small external rudder, but I think I will have one at the stern underneath as it is easier, and perhaps have a fake small freely pivoting external one for show (despite the rest of it being all to pit…

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 06/01/2020 16:32:45

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Ashley

Knowing almost the square root of Sweet Fanny Adams about EDFs but a little bit about designing model aeroplanes – albeit from a very long time ago – I'd hazard a guess that the heaviest bits should be on or close to the required CG. That surely must be the motor and battery pack. Ideally the battery pack would fit into a tapered cone immediately behind the motor, if that can be managed. Otherwise it's going to impede the airflow either in front or behind the fan. How do the aeroplane EDF guys do it?

DM

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Food for thought DM. I must look at some edf ‘planes.

C of G is likely to be forward of centre, aft of the cabin there is very little but the sponsons are up front. Unfortunately the fan and airspace occupy most of the hull, which is why I am planning to put the batt underneath so I can slide it about a bit.

There is an edf K7 on utooob but little in the way of how it was built. I must review that a bit closer.

Ashley

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