Swordfish, Jetex & Ashley’s Article July 2021 Model Boats

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Yup, 24.8% of total in 2020.

The ideal situation, which we seem to be completely ignoring, is to properly subsidise the installation of solar panels on our roofs so that our cars can be powered by the electrical energy we create ourselves at home. Unfortunately that cuts out too much big business interests so we do not seem to be making that happen.

I looked into an installation a few years ago and the 8 grand it was going to cost would take over ten years to recover. By which time the batteries would need replacing, so effectively you never see any benefits!

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

This is the problem. Probably a wind turbine would be much cheaper to buy, but not sure the neighbours will want anything of any size next door.

There are vertical ones, but likely more expensive.

I think wind generation will hit 50%in a surprisingly short time.

Ashley

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

One of the problems with wind generation is its not very wildlife friendly – they built one lot in the way of the Blue Cranes migration path (SA''s national bird !) and caused a lot of problems – plus they are to some extent noise pollutant……….

Least pollutant is Hydro powered – but the dams built for that cause major problems with climate etc…………

The answer might lie with nuclear fusion – like the sun – but no one knows how to control it or how to channel the massive amount of free electrons given off ……… ( that came from a world renowned Nuclear scientist I once worked for )

Agree with Ray & Richard   that electric vehicles are not an answer – too much hype around them by people with little understanding of the real issues

Edited By redpmg on 22/06/2021 12:02:54

[Chris EParticipant @chrise]

Wind farms are fine until it isn't windy witnessed by the very variable power output.

Solar panels are fine until it goes dark or the light quality is poor. This is a particular problem in the winter when power demands are highest. Most want to charge their cars at night when the panels are not doing much.

Storage to cover the bad times becomes an issue unless you are going to have expensive power stations sitting doing nothing for a lot of the time ready to leap into action if needed. We have no viable idea how to store such large amounts of electricity.

Small wind turbines are very inefficient.

We don't want to build nuclear power stations but we are happy to buy nuclear power electricity from the French (untl they decide to turn it off).

Don't start me on the ecological damage that all these batteries will cause. There is enough known Lithium to let the 1st gereration of electric cars be built but after that…………… (Lithium cannot presently be recycled for repeated use in batteries)

There are no easy solutions but I agree that if we all wanted an electric car the grid would collapse. Electric cars might be part of the answer but they are not the whole answer.

Subsidising solar panels – or anything else- is fine except the subsidy has to be paid for. National debt is around national income. If it gets any higher the market will demand higher interest rates & that will cause real problems.

 

Edited By Chris E on 22/06/2021 15:54:32

[Francis MacnaughtonParticipant @francismacnaughton39461]

Rather than write the future off as too difficult, I would suggest that looking at what the problems actually are often provides the answer. Particularly in the case of recycling batteries for EVs or just storage. I suggest that this explains what needs to be done- mainly setting some standards across the manufacture that require new designs to be easier to recycle in the first place.

The-issues-with-lithium-ion-battery-recycling-and-how-to-fix-them/

On wind power, of course it isn't always available but when generation is spread over the area of the whole UK and surrounding seas there is a substantial contribution to the overall requirement which is falling in cost as bigger machines are introduced. The National Grid also runs sophisticated forecasts for the period ahead to predict what wind output can be expected and what stand-by alternative source should be arranged as well as what financial incentive should be offered to the generator. More needs to be done to develop ways of energy storage that are economic over longer time scales. Schemes that use surplus generation to drive chemical processes that convert atmospheric CO2 into synthetic fuel are one possibility but there are a range of other possibilities including hydrogen gas.

Having recently seen the recent TV program on the building of Hinckley C nuclear power station, which is still at least 4 years away from commissioning, I am left thinking that if that sort of effort in terms of money and resources had been put into energy storage instead we would already have the solution to hand.

For the record and to at least play lip service to the title of this thread, I too tried Jetex motors in the 60s or 70s but never managed to get one actually working for long enough to actually power my Keil Kraft Javelin aeroplane….

[Chris EParticipant @chrise]

Nobody said that answers were impossible but rather that they are not simple nor necessarily obvious.

[redpmgParticipant @redpmg]

Meant to say Nuclear Fission – Fusion makes things go bang………..

Chernobyl was a good example of being uncontrollable …………

Very interesting fellow my late boss – had a saying that without research we would not have electric light but would have the most efficient oil lamps – amongst many other things he discovered another sub atomic particle – and was nominated for the Nobel prize for Physics – made the shortlist – I only found out after he retired – a very modest and bright man – often wonder what he would say about our countries Electricity supplier and the constant load shedding………..

Thought we could do with a laugh after all the serious talk

Edited By redpmg on 23/06/2021 15:41:29

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

I think the really clever people are quite often the most modest yet they frequently have the most to offer.

As regards energy I think the saddest aspects are that there is far too much politics and big business involved, each with their own agendas. Invariably we put policies in place purely for the sake of political gain and solutions are selectively squashed if there is any potential for financial loss. Nearly every new path we follow is not effectively evaluated globally to really study the net impact on the environment.

I do actually agree that throwing everything we have into electrical energy is a flawed concept with so many of the overall negative impacts not even properly evaluated. As regards propelling our vehicles I firmly believe that the modern internal combustion engine is now becoming extremely efficient and clean however the biggest challenge remaining is the fuel. If we were to run the engines on a renewable fuel source such as hydrogen or even LNG the emissions would be dramatically less without even having to mine the lithium to death to make the batteries. Regenerative braking will also save significant amounts of fuel as we already have in a hybrid without going fully down the electric path.

As an example the whole concept of doing away with gas fired boilers and replacing them with heat pumps is pure madness. Heat pumps are inefficient, require massively more resources to manufacture and significantly more maintenance and energy to simply keep going. They take heat from the ground five meters down. Has anyone actually evaluated what impact that might have on a terrains ambient temperature in a highly populated area over time? Why don't we simply look at how we can clean up the exhaust from the gas boiler? It is actually pretty clean anyway so there wouldn't be a lot to do and gas boilers are simple and efficient and require very little maintenance.

The world is slowly going mad in its attempts to prevent us ruining the planet and while we all argue away at our own little corners and refuse to see alternative points of view I fear we are not going to be able to stop the progression.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I have to agree with Richard here. People are looking for quick fixes and there aren't any. Existing energy sources can certainly be cleaned up and made more efficient. I have a fairly large petrol estate car. Not so long ago this sort of vehicle would have done 25-30 mpg but mine does 44 mpg.

I have just replaced our central heating system. It is a a gas fired air heater with a hot water function incorporated and way more efficient than the older system it replaced with clever fuel saving controls. It is a condensing system with minimal emissions.

If I was to throw it all away and rely on electric heaters it would cost a fortune as things stand at the moment.

Changes will come but they will do so in an evolutionary way rather than by a revolutionary quick fix.

Colin

[Chris EParticipant @chrise]

Posted by Colin Bishop on 23/06/2021 19:53:09:

………………………..Changes will come but they will do so in an evolutionary way rather than by a revolutionary quick fix.

Colin

I do hope that you are right as it is at least possible. I shudder when I hear politicians give dates for things to happen about which I guess they know very little except the value of a soundbite.

Having said that I am aware that the majority of the worlds population don't have a car or heating/ air conditioning etc but would dearly love to do so. To reduce total global average pollution whilst also accepting the right of others to a standard of living similar to ours means an enormous reduction in our pollution. It also means that they will need to go straight to the technically sophisticated, but often expensive and difficult to manufacture, solutions that we are developing. Without our help they will go to the cheap solutions that are affordable and easier to make but more polluting.

I am sure that it can be done but it is going to be an enormous investment in all sorts of ways. At the moment I hear lots of soundbites but no real political will nor recognition of the scale of the problem.

[Author]

Posts