My Clyde Puffer

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thankyou for the link Bob. They are interesting pictures.The colour pictures show so much more detail.

Would there have been a recognised way to plate a ship? Would plating always be applied horizontally ( as in your picture ) or would there be a need to plate vertically if the position required?

The picture that Colin posted of Vic 56 shows a lot of vertical rivetting but I suppose that could be some sort of bracing or maybe I`m misreading the picture. I`m a total novice I`m afraid but it`s interesting learning.

Many thanks, Jim.

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I lay the paper strakes on the hull with a gap between them. After they are painted, they give a very realistic effect of the "raised and sunken strake" method that was common back then. As I only built miniatures, I did not bother with rivets. The vertical rivets were joining the plates that were put on in short lengths. The second picture of my old ship, Edinburgh Castle, gives a good view of plating and rivets, but she was 27,000 tons.

Bob

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thankyou for the pictures Bob,

The close up of the hull shows just how much rivetting was required. It`a great picture.

I`m a while away from any plating yet but gathering information is very interesting.

Much apreciated Bob,

Jim.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

James. The way forward is cut out a hull shaped bit of card (just the side view), Mark on the waterline, and then stick some bits of paper, thin/thick card on it and paint it black (or something similar to your finished hull colour) to see what the effect is like, and if you like it.

you can then experiment to get the effect that you most like. Don’t ask any one else for their view as it’s your model.

i stuck thick paper strips on my 1:200 scale Titanic…likely about 12inches thick plating to scale, but it looks the part at viewing distance. Sometimes you have to exaggerate, like Bob, who’s plating should likely be only half a fag paper thick really, but then you don’t see it.

As I understand it, passenger ships used different hull plating construction for different areas on the hull, sometimes to make it look better (butted/flush) from a passenger viewpoint, or overlapped underwater…etc etc.

Ashley

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi Ashley, A trial with card was planned but your idea takes it a step further, thankyou. I must admit I hadn`t thought of going to that length but it makes a lot of sense.

Jim.

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

Hi there Jim

If you are interested in shell plating of hulls & general merchant ship construction – there is a 'go-to book' that all of us engineers/fitters used to have for their apprenticeship. It is called Merchant Ship Construction written by H.J Pursey – these books do often come up on Ebay – and they are a wealth of information. I will scan a page for you to show you the different types of shell plating. Good read this book even just for general read/interest.

Getting back to the plating on models; on several models which I have plated I have used plasticard and cardboard as well. First of all though I mark the hull off using masking tape – the same width as the plates I am going to use. I stick them on temporarily until I am happy with how they look – I then mark around the edge of the masking tape with black felt tip pen – It leaves the outline on the hull, peel the masking tape off and replace it with the desired thickness of the plasticard or printers card.

When it is all finished I then seal it with paint.

Here are a couple of pics – John

Edited By John W E on 20/03/2023 17:37:42

Edited By John W E on 20/03/2023 17:49:23

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi John,

Thankyou for posting those two pictures and for your method of plating. It`s quite a surprise to see and hear the variations that have come up from different people on the methods they use to get the required result. They are all proving very useful.

If that hull of yours was planked, you made a far smoother job of it than I managed.

Many thanks for the posting,

Jim.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Hi Jim. I would say that making a card hull side or just a portion of the hull is actually easier than trying various schemes out on the actual hull. Although it IS extra work, it’s not like you are making a whole second boat!

10 mins work to cut a bit of 4mm ply, paint it and when dry, use it to stick on pre-painted black card bits with non waterproof glue, so they can be sponged off if you don’t like what you have just done and want to try an alternative pattern/different thickness etc.

Ashley

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

hi Jim

Yes, the hull in the picture that I posted is of HMS Exeter and yes, it is plank on frame with 2 coats of Zpoxy on the top of the planks & 3 coats internally.

Going back to plating, years ago I plated the hull of HMS Daring, I used printers card & I found that if I sprayed the card with paint first and allowed it to dry I could work with it better. As far as durability is concerned, think about Glynn Guest, Glynn covers his models with cardboard from cereal boxes and some of his models have been around since the 1970s and still going strong. Photograph of HMS Daring under construction follows …. as I say, using copying card sprayed.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Looks spot on John, and perfectly in scale.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Posted by ashley needham on 21/03/2023 07:42:26:

Hi Jim. I would say that making a card hull side or just a portion of the hull is actually easier than trying various schemes out on the actual hull. Although it IS extra work, it’s not like you are making a whole second boat!

10 mins work to cut a bit of 4mm ply, paint it and when dry, use it to stick on pre-painted black card bits with non waterproof glue, so they can be sponged off if you don’t like what you have just done and want to try an alternative pattern/different thickness etc.

Ashley

What you really want Ashley is a shell expansion plan. Now there's a source of interesting reading!

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thanks Ashley and John for the further information. Like the detail on HMS Daring John.

I shall certainly experimnt with suggested ideas before starting on the hull itself. A while before I get to that point yet.

Many thanks,

Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Given the hull a covering of filler and sanded down to a reasonable finish.

I have just enough glass cloth from a previous order to cover the hull on the outside. It`s 49 gm cloth and I`m hoping it`s not too light. Need more now to cloth the inside. The sanding hasn`t removed all blemishes but the plating should take care of that ( I hope ) when I get round to that point.

The centre of the bulkheads will need removing at some point , and looking ahead, I`m thinking I might be able to lay a 6V lead acid battery on it`s side for power. That would help create some of the ballast required. ( Might even get away with two linked together ) Just a thought.

Jim.

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

Taking shape nicely Jim.

I use 34g cloth, which is even lighter, so yours should be fine.

Chris

Edited By Chris Fellows on 25/03/2023 16:13:27

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

looking great Jim

As you say, I wouldn't worry too much about the exterior, if you are going to plate it.

Like Chris, I have used very lightweight cloth on the exterior of the hull. Depending on the material that I have used in the construction of the hull, I sometimes just go with 3 or 4 coats of Epoxy resin on the exterior of the hull. But, what I have never done is to use glass cloth or any re-enforcement on the interior of the hull – I don't think this is necessary – unless we have planked using balsa wood. Normally, I coat the internal of my hulls with resin and hardener mixed – maybe 2 or 3 coats.

John

 

Edited By John W E on 25/03/2023 17:01:19

Edited By John W E on 25/03/2023 17:02:02

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thanks Chris and John,

Always interesting to see how others do it. I mentioned the interior clothing as Ray had asked the question a while back.

Regards,

Jim.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I think you can get away with very light cloth for this sort of thing. If the hull is sturdy, you are only covering it in glass to provide long term protection and possibly to be able to get a smoother surface.

Richard at Bushy likes pirate ships (anything with a sail in the pond = pirate ship) and builds them with cardboard planking, covering this in fibreglass and then putting a layer of balsa planks on top.

The card is easy to build the hull with, the ‘glass actually provides the strength (and waterproofness!) while the balsa makes it look like a pukka planking job. Horses for courses. My Sutcliffe Valiant lookalike has a very thin fibreglass layer over a reasonably thick foam hull, whilst a couple of the plank/hardboard boats have had to be glassed not to protect the hardboard, but to stop the hull leaking due to cracks between the different materials appearing over time.

My big 6’ destroyer, Diamond, shows cracking along the bread and butter planking and may have to be glassed underneath later on.

Ashley

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Thanks Ashley,

It never fails to amaze me when reading posts on the forum, the number of different ways modellers have of making their models. I would never have thought of making cardboard planking, but, from your description I can see how it would work.

Jim.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Jim,

Your Puffer is looking great I'm sure the ply planking will be strong enough to just resin inside as John has said, my Cullamix tug is balsa planked so I used some proper woven glass cloth , as she weighs in at 35 lbs she also needed the strength, I think you maybe surprised how much ballast and battery weight she will require.

You may have a chuckle , I have just re-joined Pevensey Bay Sailing Club in Sussex to get back out dinghy racing at 12" to the foot scale, not sure which class of dinghy to buy at the moment

Regards Ray

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Good for you Ray, getting out on the water again. Something that should give you great pleasure in the coming summer months.

I just wonder though, how long will it be before you see something and think…that might make a nice model. We all watch in anticipation.

Best wishes , Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

I`ve been practicing laying out card plating using porridge box card to get some idea of the layout of the plates on the current build. A while back Richard mentioned the overlap of the plating. Would that mean that one plate edge was pressed to form a step so the other plate edge layed in the step, then both were rivetted together to form a flush surface on the hull.? If it was one plate just layed over the edge of the adjacent one and rivetted, that would mean the overlap facing the stern to stop water being forced in when the boat moved forward I would think.

Or am I overthinking everything and being too fussy and getting it all wrong? Most pictures I`ve seen seem to show butt joints and double rows of rivets.

Jim.

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

hi there

On rivetted ships – normal practice – depending on the Shipyard. The plates would either be butt jointed over a frame which obviously is behind the plating – or – there would be a strap behind if the two plates were to be joined between the frames. Don't forget colliers, puffers and coastal vessels were built as cheap as possible. Unlike the Royal Navy which would often use flush plating and rivetting which was extremely time consuming and expensive. The Merchant Navy as they say 'owt would do – as long as it is cheap'. Therefore you had lap joints running from bow to stern and knuckle joints running vertically.

I am unsure if you have this link to the Puffers Website – there are some really interesting photographs on there.

John

 

https://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/

Edited By John W E on 30/04/2023 18:13:10

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi John. Thank you for your reply and explanation.

I`ll have a look at that website this evening. All pictures are obviously of great use.

Many thanks, Jim.

[James Hill 5Participant @jameshill5]

Hi all,

My attempt at plating the hull. Nothing is permanent, all being held with masking tape. The reason for the pictures was to ask if it looked a reasonable representation of plating? some pictures show long plates, others a mixture of smaller ones. I thought if I posted now and I`m going wrong , I could correct things before I get too far. The card is laminated to get a reasonable thickness.

Jim.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Jim,

It's big decision time ?? are you going to epoxy over the card ? rub down the first coat and apply a second coat ? this may allow you to reduce the effect of the joints if they look wonky.

I must admit the idea frightens me after you have made such a great job of the hull ! I would go for some masked and gently airbrushed shading the give the plating effect you would only have to do the topsides. only the fish see the underside

Regards Ray

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