MOTOR SAILOR LIFEBOAT….running on pp9 batteries

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

next summer [ cancelled from this June due to covid19] 4 nutters are going to sail the length of Windermere with model lifeboats [mine is in the build blogs at the moment] to raise money for the RNLI.

The other guys are going with bigger boats up to 70" long, and stuffed with batteries.

I tried this 9 years ago with similar boats, but the battery capacity was enormous and my motors burned out.

this time I am going with sail as main power with an auxiliary Buhler 11 pole brushed motor running on 12 – 24 volt power just to get me out of any trouble with lake steamers and grockles in Tupperware boats getting too close whilst having a look.

as I don't really want to pay 60 quid or more on ni am or li po rechargeable batteries, I was wondering if I could run the motor on 2 x pp9 disposable batteries run in series to give me 18v…..mid motor range, and if so how long would they last. my buhler motor draws 1.5 amps per hour on full load…..but as I said I would only be using the motor for short bursts to get me out of trouble.

would

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

pp9 batteries

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I remember you doing this reckless crazy escapade in 2012, just as my Great Eastern adventure was announced

It sounds very challenging Neil…..Are you sure it`s safe?

How many miles does that entail?

Rather you than me, Matey Boy!

Bob

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Neil

Zinc-carbon and alkaline batteries are designed for low current supplies e.g. a torch bulb or small radio. Even though your motor draws only 1.5A that's asking a lot from a dry battery. The short answer is "I don't know – try it and see" but at a fiver apiece you might regret it, especially if they fail right at the moment you need the motor to get you out of trouble. I'd love to be proved wrong!
Why not contact Component-Shop and see what advice they can give you? You certainly don't need to shell out sixty quid.

Dave M

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All,

Is it April the first again ??

PP9's are those tiny batteries for transistor radios etc the sort you used to put your tounge on as a kid?

Or am I missing something !

Regards Ray

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

No, Ray – they're PP3. PP9s are the ones with similar press-stud connectors but they're much bigger. PP9

"Tounge"??

DM

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

So, just .25 amp hour capacity and the motor draws 1.5 amps? That makes about 10 minues max running time at full speed but more if just trolling- is that right?

And what if the wind is in the wrong direction? Assuming it is on the beam then you would have to tack up the lake which will pretty much double the distance.

Colin

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Dave,

Yes I Can't spell either, all I left school with was O level technical drawing & metalwork, but did ok because I had some common sense, not at battery recognition unfortunately 😄

Regards Ray

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Not sure that argument holds water Ray. I managed to scrape together three A levels and that didn't include battery recognition either. It was just the start of my real education which I picked up after school. If I wanted to know about something then I simply read up on it and in those days batteries came in all sorts of varieties including wet lead acid, Nife cells , zinc chloride, DEACS and the new kid on th block NiCads. It was never rocket science and the modelling mags had tons of information on them.

Colin

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Posted by Bob Abell on 15/05/2020 15:03:49:

I remember you doing this reckless crazy escapade in 2012, just as my Great Eastern adventure was announced

It sounds very challenging Neil…..Are you sure it`s safe?

How many miles does that entail?

Rather you than me, Matey Boy!

Bob

oh yes, Bob as safe as we can possibly get it. we have the Windermere branch of the RNLI monitoring and keeping a close eye on us from time to time on an exercise ,the Windermere park rangers doing some escorting and keeping folk away from the boats with their rib, as an exercise, and we have two support boats for us hosted by the Royal Windermere Yacht club also volunteered their services.

the RNLI are having fund raising stalls at both ends I believe,as we did at Loch Ness and the Windermere steam Launch Museum are having a 3 day trade and model boat show helped and organised by the Windermere model boat club over the same weekend, with an evening do on the Saturday night.

our lunch time stop is at the museum, I think.

the organisation that has gone into it has been amazing, by Steve Bennett, who has shown his lifeboat model that is going to take part at many shows over the last two years, only for this dreadful covid19 to thwart us at the last moment, but we will be back next summer

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Posted by Dave Milbourn on 15/05/2020 17:46:41:

No, Ray – they're PP3. PP9s are the ones with similar press-stud connectors but they're much bigger. PP9

"Tounge"??

DM

thanks Dave, I knew you would bail me out before I made a fool out of myself in the middle of Windermere, lol.

so the next question is………I bought this set of batteries some years ago for my ST 200 Sea plane tender but only ever sailed it once and the batteries were put aside and sadly overlooked. I have tried to charge them with a 50mah charger that I use for my tx/rx batteries, and it is either not pumping in enough juice or the batteries are now in a state of permanent comatose ………..is there any way of resurrecting them, or will they just become more weights for gluing decks down.

picture is of the two battery packs and the Buhler motor I will be using.

cheers for all your help and knowledge. neil.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Posted by Colin Bishop on 15/05/2020 18:21:58:

So, just .25 amp hour capacity and the motor draws 1.5 amps? That makes about 10 minues max running time at full speed but more if just trolling- is that right?

And what if the wind is in the wrong direction? Assuming it is on the beam then you would have to tack up the lake which will pretty much double the distance.

Colin

about 10.5 miles straight line, Colin………..but we got all day, and lights on our support boat, so hopefully home before the pubs shut……………..i'm the eternal optimist, lol.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Pubs? PUBS? There won't be any left by then…

Colin

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Neil

Honestly? Waste no further effort on them. Bindaloo time!

Dave

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Posted by Dave Milbourn on 15/05/2020 19:10:38:

Neil

Honestly? Waste no further effort on them. Bindaloo time!

Dave

cheers mate…..…..would those be the best type to buy new of, but look after this time, lol

as for pubs, Colin………….there'll always be a weatherspoons, lol.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Ah yes, Tim, formerly a member of the Small Faces?

Colin

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Neil

Like I said, ring CompShop and have a natter with Iain, if you can get hold of him. 18v is a lot of NiMH cells but that's not necessarily the most cost-effective way of getting there. All you need is a pack which will deliver that voltage and handle a discharge current of 1.5A reliably. They needn't be Sub-C size NiMHs.

Colin
You mean that model employer and noted self-publicist Mr Martin? A delightful chap and high on the list of folk to whose bottom-line I wouldn't contribute one tin dime. Don't understand the Small Faces reference – Stevie, Plonk, Kenny and Mac, but no Smug…….

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 15/05/2020 19:28:25

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Neil,

Not wanting be a prophet of doom, this is going to be mainly by wind power I assume for that distance ? And wind hopefully from behind all day ??

Regards Ray

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Posted by Ray Wood 2 on 15/05/2020 19:27:14:

Hi Neil,

Not wanting be a prophet of doom, this is going to be mainly by wind power I assume for that distance ? And wind hopefully from behind all day ??

Regards Ray

that's the hope and prayers going out ROY……….got a year now to put in a good word……..

however the prevailing winds on Windermere have always been from the south westerly, so if they are on the day……I'll skip up the lake……….that's the prophesy lol.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Posted by Dave Milbourn on 15/05/2020 19:22:26:

Neil

Like I said, ring CompShop and have a natter with Iain, if you can get hold of him. 18v is a lot of NiMH cells but that's not necessarily the most cost-effective way of getting there. All you need is a pack which will deliver that voltage and handle a discharge current of 1.5A reliably. They needn't be Sub-C size NiMHs.

Colin
You mean that model employer and noted self-publicist Mr Martin? A delightful chap and high on the list of folk to whose bottom-line I wouldn't contribute one tin dime. Don't understand the Small Faces reference – Stevie, Plonk, Kenny and Mac, but no Smug…….

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 15/05/2020 19:28:25

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

wont need to run the motor on 18v Dave……just sufficient for short blasts to either get out of bother or ti find the wind…………

if its dead calm on the day i'll be thumbing a tow off one of the bigger lads, lol…..

just need two packs of similar size to those in the photo to fit either side of the drop keel box which runs from the deck to the keel and splits the fore part of the hull into two halves

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I've always thought that Mr Martin's countenance is on a different scale to his cranium…

And the last time I ate in one of his establishments it was awful.

Colin

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

i'll give component shop a call nearer the time, or knowing me i'll end up with another set of knackered batteries that I forget to look after…..no hurry. still need esc's and batteries for my Shannon that sits like a nun in a beer house on my kitchen table. lol.

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

Posted by neil howard-pritchard on 15/05/2020 18:53:32:

Posted by Dave Milbourn on 15/05/2020 17:46:41:

No, Ray – they're PP3. PP9s are the ones with similar press-stud connectors but they're much bigger. PP9

"Tounge"??

DM

thanks Dave, I knew you would bail me out before I made a fool out of myself in the middle of Windermere, lol.

so the next question is………I bought this set of batteries some years ago for my ST 200 Sea plane tender but only ever sailed it once and the batteries were put aside and sadly overlooked. I have tried to charge them with a 50mah charger that I use for my tx/rx batteries, and it is either not pumping in enough juice or the batteries are now in a state of permanent comatose ………..is there any way of resurrecting them, or will they just become more weights for gluing decks down.

picture is of the two battery packs and the Buhler motor I will be using.

cheers for all your help and knowledge. neil.

A 50mA charger will take at least 84 hours to charge a 4200mAH battery. To mess with a well known phrase, "You're going to need a bigger charger".

Would I trust a PP9 or its associated connectors with an important job? No. As mentioned earlier, They don't store that much power, and they are not intended to run a motor under load. Even in portable radios, if higher power was wanted (think "boom boxes&quot you would be using half a dozen "D" cells. You could do a reasonable job of driving a boat with rechargeable D cells, which worked better than the single use type, but the holders and connectors were always a problem.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

A 50mA charger will take at least 84 hours to charge a 4200mAH battery. To mess with a well known phrase, "You're going to need a bigger charger".

that might be the problem Malcolm……..as I have only ever charged them for a few hours and then tend to forget that i have left them connected to the charger and turn the power off………..what a dummy. I shall see what can be done.

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