Motor reversing

[Jerry YoungParticipant @jerryyoung62912]

if you were to use an i.c. motor in a boat model instead of an electric motor,is it possible to  make the boat  go in reverse? and if so how and what is needed.

i should expect some sort of gearbox and extra servos to operate the gearbox because you can’nt through the i.c. in reverse like you can with the electric.

or is this a stupid question and some where out there is the answer staring me in the face

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Jerry

No this is not a stupid question it is in fact a problem that model boaters have been dealing with for years, whilst gearboxes are available they are very rare and difficult to use as they tend to stall the motor.

Your soloution is to modify the rudder, this has actually been covered in a very interesting piece in Januarys issue of Model Boat.

I have used this rudder combo on some very large i.c. model boats and found that it works very well.

Hope this helps

Paul 

[Jerry YoungParticipant @jerryyoung62912]

thanks paul

i take it you mean jan 07 issue i’ll have a look in the back issues.

it is a large scale model i’am building, 54" long x 15 " beam, a motor cruiser . the plans recomend a J.A.P. 35cc  i.c. motor

[HS93Participant @hs9317166]

  HPI the model Buggy people do a nice gear box that can be put in reverse without a clutch or stoping , they are beingused on steam plants that like the stuart 10 that have no methoud of self start when stoped, they should be able to take quiet a bit of power as some of the engines used are abot 3bhp and that is driven to 4 wheel drive that prob has a bit more grip than a prop  oh they are about £30

peter

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Hi Jerry,

Pauls right, the easiest way is the rudder – no messing around with clutches and gear boxes –  I think they are called a "Kitchen" rudders, similar to a Kortz.  where the tube is split into two halves, these are able to turn the boat the same way as the kortz but both halves are able to turn inward, forcing the thrust of the propeller backward.

I don’t know which area you live in, but if you live on the Wirral,  there is a small pusher tug on the dock side, at Victoria docks, with one of these fitted.

Cheers – Ken

ps – just had a quick Goggle, have a look at ….

http://www.pcez.com/~artemis/SLAkitchen.gif

[Jerry YoungParticipant @jerryyoung62912]

hi ken

got ya.

 it’s good to go down the different route and have something a bit quirky. had a look at your link and the layout looks fairly simple.

 you have to use the addage of "keep it simple" and to be honest i did’nt want to fill the hull up with more than i had to.

 my brother lives over liverpool way and hes got a camera.

cheers jerry

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Jerry

The JAP engine is a very nice piece of kit but a bit difficult to get hold of especially with a clutch. I tend to use either 35cc 2 stroke pull start strimmer engines or 75cc 4 stroke lawnmower engines both types have great clutches and can be easily fitted into a large hull.

And the piece about the rudders is in the current issue, mine fell through the door on Saturday.

Paul

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Hi Jerry,

I’m working I’m Moreton tomorrow, I’ll take camera with me and if I get a bit of spare time I’ll nip over there and get some piccy’s for you (to be honest, could do with a bit of a skive!).  The tugs not in very good condition but the owner is working on her now and again, done quite a bit on the insides.  Rudder has been welded in reverse to stop the vandals wrecking it, but you should be able to get the general idea.

Pictures may take a couple of days to go live, will put them in "Kens bits" gallery

Cheers – Ken

[Vinnie BraniganParticipant @vinniebranigan92297]

Oh God…not again.

The – pictures – go live – straight away.  I – do not – have to approve them!

Vinnie 

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Cheers Vin.

The reason I mentioned it to Jerry was I put a new album up on Sunday with just 1 picture and it appeared today – I’m not moaning or anything, just trying to save a member a trip … so there … wont say anything again … mums the word … zip …

Don’t you ever take your wife out !

[Vinnie BraniganParticipant @vinniebranigan92297]

Yes.  But she keeps finding her way home.

Vinnie 

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Nastsy !

Your supposed to treat her like one of your boats – love, caress, take out, new coat of paint (delete "of paint") spend money on her – and like your boats she’ll reward you with hours of pleasure !  (this is Vinnie a & Mrs.Vinnie)

ps – lied about saying anything again – you talked me into this reply

[Vinnie BraniganParticipant @vinniebranigan92297]

Er…don’t actually own any boats?  But seriously thinking of having a go soon. 

Vinnie 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Oh Vinnie

Shame on you!!

You control all our destiny and yet you don’t have a boat

Perhaps your hard done by and dear wife will buy you a little plastic one for Christmas then you could come down to Runcorn lake and play with the big boys.

Those would be photos that would take some time to appear on the gallery

Happy almost christmas

Paul

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Hi Jerry,

Been to Moreton and grabbed some pictures for you and put them in my gallery "Kens bits" along with a sketch showing how the two servos operate the rudder.  You will be able to see these when they appear !

An interesting note I discovered is not only can you reverse using this rudder but you can also control the forward speed and even bring the boat to a stop with the engine running ! – just by partially closing the rudder halves.

you will need to be quite good with a soldering iron as I’ve not found anyone yet selling them – though I’m sure someone must.  You need a brass rudder post, on this slide two brass tubes, one over the other, and the two halves are fixed to these.

Two servos operate the rudder. The steering servo (nearest to the rudder) is mounted onto a small board, this in turn is fitted between two brass channels and is able to move back and forth in the channel.

The second servo is mounted behind it, and its this servo that slides the other. As the steering servo is pushed forward the two halves of the rudder will close, effecting reverse

Hope this is some help – Ken

Now before you have a go at me Vinnie, I put these pictures up at 18:05 tonight.  It is now 19:00 and no sign of them so they are not instant.  Well I thought they were pictures but must have sent some Avatas by mistake ! or the I.T. boys are telling you porkies.

What we need here Vinnie, is for you to join the forum as a member, create an album and send a couple of pictures to it – you must however use your own, home computer and not a works one.  If yours go live instantly, let us know which computer your using and we can all buy one ! – you must not use your influence as moderator in this exercise.

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Paul, Len,

I’ve got rid of (passed on) my old mag issues,  I’ll swear I’ve seen this rudder set-up in one of them, do you remember seeing it.  If you do, could you point Jerry towards the issue.

Cheers – Ken

[Jerry YoungParticipant @jerryyoung62912]

HS 93/paul

send me a link for the reverse gearbox if you can find one  so i can have a look

jerry

[Jerry YoungParticipant @jerryyoung62912]

sorry

thats HS 93 / peter

[Jerry YoungParticipant @jerryyoung62912]

21.10

just waiting for the pics ken not in "your bits " yet. just i jpeg of a platform.

jerry

[Jerry YoungParticipant @jerryyoung62912]

nice pics ken

its all a bit vague untill you get to your sketch then it hits you.

off to buy some brass sheet and have a trial run with the soldering iron.

oops forgot santas coming, all work must grind to a halt in the boat yard this weekend.

thanks to all who contributed to this thread have a merry xmas and a happy new year.

jerry

[Len OchiltreeParticipant @lenochiltree67043]

Ken,

A Kitchen Rudder has just appeared in a recent mag by Glyn Guest I think.

Len

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

The kitchen rudder setup is in the latest issue.

Ken you are right..after much deliberation I have come to the conclusion that our Vinnie does look like Phil Collins, which is a real shame as I quite like the music.

Cheer up Vinnie not long till christmas

Paul

[ManxmanParticipant @manxman]

Nice one Paul

Yes, just got my issue this morning and spotted the article, a much simplified version using two flat plate rudders.  But this is not what I had seen previously, which showed the two servos with their connecting rods and sliding board.

Not long now Vin, just four more sleeps, don’t forget the stocking !

Cheers – Ken 

Vinnie, just noticed in the info bar an error ! – heavens forbid – where it shows how many post, photos etc we’ve each sent in – give mine a knock will you – still stuck on 38 photos and I’ve sent in over 80. Its one way of checking photos have gone live.

[JC Uknz 1Participant @jcuknz1]

I’ve skipped the recent comments but could you take a leaf out of the jetboat book and have a scoop which drops down behind the thrust which is a simple extra servo control needed.    Looks a bit like a dredge scoop, nice and rounded.

[JC Uknz 1Participant @jcuknz1]

My jetboat is fitted with a 30cc petrol ‘weed eater’ motor but I have not bothered to make the scoop a working one like others in my Club.

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