Kids

[S MParticipant @sm83187]

Starting kids off

[S MParticipant @sm83187]

I have built things for many years and being an engineer certainly helps, along the way I have built many model boats and planes and while the boats were mine, the aircraft were for my brother who couldn't build or repair them, but boy could he smash them.

I have trained many apprentices and mentored many student engineers doing engineering Degrees, so a mix at both ends of the spectrum; so why aren't modellers bringing on youngsters and training them to build boats and other models?

In reality people don't seem to have the time and inclination to bring on youngsters and this is counter productive in my opinion as modelling encourages many new life skills and gives a purpose to a hobby. I have many engineering skills and someone had to teach me the basics and give me the expertise to enhance these skills, so why aren't people doing the same with youngsters? modelling teaches many basic skills and allows youngsters to enhance them. Identifying components in a kit, laying them out to a plan, measuring, bonding and fixing, cutting and shaping, working with different materials, and many other things are basic skills which can be enhanced as expertise and knowledge increase.

I have been fortunate enough to educate many youngsters and many have gone on to move from kits to scratch building, some have moved away from wood and plastics to moulding in GRP and even carbon fibre and some have cut from sheet steels and aluminium and soldered models together. Tin plate boats some will cry! maybe, but when someone sees something they have made and actually have it on the lake they retain an interest and pass these skills to others.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

SM. Good point and one debated here before. I am inclined to think that all this starts at home,

I collect toys and make things for them (diorama stuff and so on) and the lad used to play with these things, thus he has been guided at an early age by me to play with real toys, use his imagination and (for the purposes of this thread) he has seen me make stuff, and indeed I have made specific things that he wanted.  A robot wars arena and robots, a Brooklands race circuit for his cars etc)

Back to boats…after the receipt of a Woolworths r/c boat (that's the lad, as an xmas present from the grandparents) and the realisation that we could not boat together using my reactivated boats, I made him an LCM. This meant we could boat together and he could put his various tanks in it.

From there I began making all sorts of craft to keep his interest up, hence the varied collection. Although he never made a complete boat, he did help me and has the general idea. Although wedded to the computer now, he can always come back to it and eventually when he has a kiddy of his own he will remember the various options for play rather than just pc games.

If of course you were an internet dad and did not a) have any idea or b)have no other interest, then what chance has a kiddy got?

I always take a lander to the pond as a rescue boat but more importantly as something to let kids have a go on, and have a taste of boating.

Ashley

Sorry have said all this before!!

Edited By ashley needham on 12/08/2018 09:05:21

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi S,

Ashley's right plus there is social attitude for the last 40 years to some how look down on manual work as being a failure academically at school, graduates & apprentices you trained back a while may have used the knowledge you gave them to earn money. Kids have moved on I'm afraid, but all those IT guys on £50k would look differently at today's plumbers earning £750 per day

Supply & demand !

Regards Ray

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 12/08/2018 09:36:28

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Hi. I have three sons. They all pursue one kind of hobby or another if which i am proud even my daughter who has three boys plays with them on an educating level with toys. I think you are right that if nurtured correctly you can instill great values into youg people.

On the apprentice route i own a small business and we have been seeking a new apprentice for our engineering section. No one has applied!!!!!!! There probably too engaged on there smart phones to bother 😪

Brian

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi All

I'm losing all the older model engineering buddies who were tool makers in Woolwich Arsenal, that's the way it is, but George my 12 year old grandson knows his way round the Myford Super 7, because he realised he can make bits for his trials bike . And likes to keep on my good side for latest XBOX games.catch them young they maybe interested in making things?

Regards Ray

[S MParticipant @sm83187]

Ashley, some interesting points, and no I was not an internet dad. Just because the world moves on and creates mass hysteria over the latest fad which usually involves parting parents and children from their cash to pay massive shareholder bonuses, and lasts for a couple of years at best doesn't mean they cannot do both. Creating something and seeing it work, or playing with it creates a distraction from the great world of commercial exploitation and creates a sutuation where children can move away from a computer and mass indoctrination, and actually produce something which will last for many years, and this is a constant in many respects.

Ray, an interesting point about social attitudes, but in reality everyone will need a plumber, builder, electrician, and many other skilled trades and here again money is the focus and not the skill itself; is this the social attitude or forcing a belief that everything centres around cash or credit, an interesting thought. As for your grandson, great to see, several years ago I bought one of mine a couple of early 1900's lathes which were in a box of bits for the princely sum of £2 at auction and nobody wanted, he restored them and now has a metal lathe and a wood lathe with motors dating from 1913 and they still have grease nipples. One common denominator from this is that children create transferable skills which they can use in many aspects of life and use them in everyday life. Grandson recently got his first house and did much of the work himself and saved a small fortune, thus taking himself out of the commercial market of paying huge sums of money to trades.

Brian, you have hit the nail on the head, creating skills.

Many people often overlook the social side of things as spending time together is a fun and relaxing way to spend time and when you see them smash something and repair it at the side of a lake and have it running again, we often take a picnic and sit together and have something to eat and drink, on a nice summers day it often attracts others who are fascinated and encourages them.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

Please think carefully about posting images of children on any websites as not everybody is to be trusted.

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Paul,

Good point ! Shame perhaps the thread name should be changed ?

Regards Ray

[David Marks 2Participant @davidmarks2]

I agree with all of the comments made so far. I am rapidly approaching 70 (that is age not speed) and as a child made things such as Trolleys ( plank of wood, crude steering and running on pram wheels) and also Track Bikes from scrap bikes salvaged from the local dump. I had a very good apprenticeship which provided me with a very good standard of living. My children now 40 and 37 attended schools where the main aim was for the school to score well on the dreaded league table and the ultimate prize being for 100% of pupils to go to "Uni". Sadly this attitude did nothing for the fact that University education does not help the fact that we all (at times) need plumbers, electricians and someone to fix the car. So in the main we have nation of people sat in front of computers and when the wheel of the computer chair drops off do not have clue how to fix it. Apprenticeships (proper ones) have gone and we live in a world where no one does anything with their hands in a constructive manner, even the DIY stores a feeling the pinch. However going back to my daughter and son, because of the interest of their parents, both are creative in many ways, particularly my son who is the proud owner of a car known as a Lotus 7 inspired, which he scratch built (NOT FROM A KIT) with training from Dad. Also he is into Model Boats…scratch built.

[Robin BodgerParticipant @robinbodger80379]

I think part of the answer is just to show kids that ‘they’ can make things, it doesn’t all have to be bought. From a model boat to a chicken house to a space rocket, they all require the belief that they can, with a little fore thought be made by themselves. So many projects I’ve embarked on without the skills but asked,studied and learned the skills necessary. You can’t always teach your kids the actual skills but you can teach them that with hard work they can make almost anything and at least get the really precise bits made for them by an expert. We can’t all own a lathe or have a full workshop but we can all try to make more of the stuff we want, and as a last point let them do soldering with blow touches (under supervision) let them use jig saws (under supervision) unless their allowed to use tools they’ll never have the confidence to pick them up later in life. Well my little rant over. 😁

[S MParticipant @sm83187]

An interesting point Robin and you create that belief by letting them try and fail, then you show them where they went wrong and the correct way to do things and in many circumstances their overlapping skills begin to work together and they do think for themselves and connect these skills from different areas to achieve something.

Only today a family member wanted a fine saw for some accurate cuts, he bought a jigsaw in the Bank Holiday sale and went home and built a table for it and mounted it underneath and packed it so it had the minimum of blade protruding, he came up and scrounged a fine blade from me and did some lovely freehand cuts. Not bad for a £10 outlay for the sale item jigsaw and bits of offcuts he had at home, and he turned one cheap tool into two tools.

[Byron Rees…(Ron)Participant @byronrees-ron]

Hi all……here is my penny worth.

As Ashley points out, we have had this discussion quite a few times,and it is a fundamental problem, getting younger people interested in our hobby, or any practical hobby for that matter.

With nearly 40 years experience as a Technology teacher in secondary schools, an examiner for 'O and A' levels and cub/scouts hobby badges plus a lecturer/mentor at Goldsmiths College teaching budding teachers the practical side of things for their Technology and teaching degrees, I have observed very many people of all ages and have come to some conclusions.

Everyone is born a blank canvas they say and watching and learning from their parents can form thought processes to be brought about in the young child that will ultimately affect how they deal with problem solving and skills, dangers and abilities in readiness for growing up etc.

As far as us old wrinkleys are concerned, we were brought into a world with far more hand skills around, most of the jobs that had to be done in the family home had a distinct practical side, not so many expensive things to do the work for us as now. Without really remembering the things we learnt at that tender age, we were exposed to darning, knitting, mixing food by hand as well as hand washing and a thousand other tasks. There was not really a television available when I was a kid, Oh they were there (I'm not that old) but we couldn't afford one.

Repairing things when they wore out or broke was commonplace,and many of our fathers and even mothers went out to work in an essentially manual world. These early inputs do register in our brains and…more importantly they are not alien to us or frightening. DIY came about at the same period, make do and mend and build your own radio are things we may also remember.

Another thing about early childhood is ones ability to Conceptualise, which it appears to me to be a God given ability even more than a learnt one. You would be surprised at just how high a percentage of the population are unable to look at 2 dimensional sketches and be able to visualise in their mind what it should look like in 3 dimensions. Something that most modellers will do without even thinking about it.

When given a few simple tests that I devised some years ago, secondary (11 to 13 years old) children (and those children are now in their 40's) about 95 % of them couldn't do it. When I asked the children who could do it what toys they liked or had, nearly all said Meccanno, Lego and Fischer Technic., none of the others were interested in those things, a real eye opener.

At their parents evening I often asked the parents of the ones with the practical or assembly like toys, why did they buy them for their children…..most answered that their kids really enjoyed them and spent hours inventing new things. It just came about naturally like girls wanting a BB gun and boys an Action Man or even a Cindy doll. The parents could no more wire an electric plug than fly to the moon, so it didn't come from them!

When giving a seminar to teachers about childrens ability to problem solve, I gave all the delegates a simple box to assemble and only an exploded view of it . Despite the fact that they were all very intelligent and qualified teachers only a very few could do it. I almost decided to start my own IKEA furniture assembly service on the spot.

I spent many hours allowing my son to tinker alongside me in the workshop, he turned out to be what they now call 'Word Blind' or Dyslexic, but he could conceptualise. He didn't follow me into the field of wood and metal but is now a highly sought after and qualified stone mason. Although he likes models he's still not interested in building them. His ability led him to a love of architecture and stonework, but it was still very practical

There is no guarantee that just because we have tried to get our youngsters interested in building models for instance, but by laying the groundwork at an early age they may come back to it when they have more time and grown a bit older.

I've tried every which way to get local youth groups interested in modelling. They love it while I'm doing it, but very rarely will one go into it as a hobby.

Talk to most plumbers, builders, electricians etc about their ability to conceptualise. Invariably it is a skill that most of them will have….maybe we should be recruiting them into our model clubs. Perhaps arranging a few talks at the local college of further education for the practical course students might pay dividends..

I could go on but I'll let that lot settle first.

Happy boating………………RON.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Right on the button Ron. Words of wisdom indeed!

Whether things will change or not who knows but it is interesting to see that there is an increasing move away from academic education (partly for financial reasons) towards vocational skills. I didn't go to university although I went to a Grammar school and subsequently had a white collar career including building computer systems but I have always seen the virtue of pursuing vocational skills and practical applications. People are wired up differently and should exploit their individual talents rather than conform to some social 'norm'.

Despite my background I have always derived huge satisfaction from my practical modelmaking and am quite envious of those who take craftmanship and engineering in their stride when I have to struggle to get anywhere near their standards. I can only admire them.

In the UK we do not recognise those practical skills to the extent we should although most of us are in practice entirely reliant upon them in our daily lives!

Colin

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Wise words

I think the desire to make a model is driven by the fascination of the full size subject we are trying to create, remember when it was a 2/- Airfix Spitfire or a keilkraft flying scale series 22" rubber powered, or a big one with a 30cc petrol on the front, the same desire exists. RC flying is still massively popular because of the 3rd dimension and the challenge of learning to fly it without crashing Kids like the speed they find it's exciting

My grandson's humour me with my boats, that's life !!

Regards Ray

[Chris FellowsParticipant @chrisfellows72943]

As we know model boats are a minority hobby and the number of folks that continue to indulge in it during their life is very small. It's one thing to get children interested but in most cases it will just be a passing phase.

In my case for example I went through the stages of building plastic kits and dabbling with RC but as I grew up I became interested in other things including cycling, canoeing, motor bikes, cars and boats etc. and models were soon forgotten. And of course work, the fairer sex and children came along!

I only got into model making (boats) again a couple of years ago, aged 62, because I wanted a winter hobby and a neighbour reignited my interest.

I think that as with a lot of things it's luck and opportunity as to whether we get into certain things. And I'm guessing that a large percentage of current modellers have had a break of around 50 years?

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Chris,

Interesting how different people go through life, I too am 62 years young, done all the normal stuff kids, grandchildren full size boats & kit cars etc, but always had a workshop and built planes,trains & boats, it's my passion, life came 2nd to model making its just what I do ! Lucky me

I'm re-creating models from my younger days my take on the Keilkraft Otter Based on a Sun tug for MB's in the near future 15" long

Regards Ray

Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 31/08/2018 20:46:00

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