How many people still scratch build?

[sammykParticipant @sammyk]

its a modern idea buy today sail when you reach the water its all wrong you just can not beat the feeling when your model that was built from scratch  runs for the first time ,is it me or is it my age sammyk

[Peter FitnessParticipant @peterfitness34857]

I agree with Paul, the issue is becoming muddy. Making speed ESCs may be OK for the experienced builder, but is hardly applicable to the newcomer. In my case, electronics is a black art, and I’m very happy to buy the finished article.

 

Anyone considering the hobby will have to accept that there will be costs involved, not too many hobbies are free, at least, not the ones where you actually build things. As Colin said, most people have some tools, many of which can be used in model boat building, and many fine models have been built with very basic equipment.

 

As I understand it, the object of Paul’s proposed competition is to see how much it would cost, in materials, to build a model using Glynn’s plan. The cost of tools and equipment should not enter in to the equation.

 

Peter.

[The Long BuildParticipant @thelongbuild]

Looking at the plan, the only tools  you would need are

 

1. A Junior Hacksaw

2. Stanley Knife

3. Possibly a soldering Iron for the rudder

4. Ruler

5.Pins

6.Rubberbands /  masking tape

7.Glue

8.Maybe tissue paper and dope.

 

 

 

Pretty well as the build shows, and this was all I used for the boat I built from the free Vic Smeeds plan.

 

The only problem I see here for most beginners is the lead weight.  But saying that if it was my son asking I have plenty of that ..

 

 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

For the avoidance of misunderstandings, many of which I have created, please find below a definitive description of the scratch build challenge.

I hope that it explains everything clearly but if you have any questions please ask and I will do my best to clarify.

The challenge is to scratch build a model motor sailer designed by Glynn Guest the plan and a fully detailed article of which appears in April’s issue of Model Boat magazine.

The basis of the challenge is to show that the building a model boat can be achieved by a newcomer to our hobby for less than £100.

The challenge is in two parts:

Theory only:
The competitor studies Glynn’s drawing and reads the accompanying article and then uses their skill to produce a priced list of materials and equipment necessary to construct this model. The object being to find the cheapest prices and the only proviso is that everything must be verifiable; an outline example of a priced list has already been produced on this thread.

This part of the challenge is just for fun and has no prize except the kudos of being the best and will hopefully judged by Glynn.

 

Theory and build:
The competitor completes the theory section of the challenge and then proceeds to construct a model to show that the theoretical findings are correct.

The model has to follow the spirit of Glynn’s design and when complete must be recognisable as a Goblin motor sailer however the builder is free to make small alterations or change the choice of materials / equipment if this will assist in bringing the cost of construction down, the builder is also free to increase, but not decrease, the scale of the model.

The theory and build challenge will hopefully be judged by Glynn and carries a prize of 24 hours CAD time by myself in which I shall do design work for the winner, this can be anything model boat related, within reason, and when completed will be emailed to the winner; (see note)

For the challenge to be as realistic as possible we will assume that our imaginary beginner has basic DIY skills and has access to a set of basic household tools and DIY products.

These tools are:
Hammer, screwdrivers, electric drill and bits, flat sander, junior hacksaw, short panel saw, paint brushes, craft knife and scissors.

 

The DIY products are:
PVA glue, 2 pack epoxy glue, one coat white gloss paint, masking tape and insulation tape.

The cost of these tools and products need not be included in the competitors priced list.

All other materials and equipment must be costed as if being purchased new.

Colin will set up a new thread for the entries to be posted on and the closing date is 1^st May 2009.

 

CAD prize: I will discuss via email the design requirements that the winner might have and do research and / or produce a set of scaled drawing to suit, the drawings will include plan, side and end views and have a set of 1:1 templates all of which will be printable on any standard A4 printer, the information will be emailed to the winner on PDF format which will ensure accuracy when printing.

 

Paul

Edited By The Fat Controller on 21/03/2009 07:55:18

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I would be tempted to build the model from corrogated cardboard and well sealed.

 

…………and it`s worth a thought…………..rubber band power for getting out of the doldrums?

 

………..and no sail winch either

 

 

Just a bit of lateral thinking?……………..Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Thats the ticket Bob

 

You don’t need a sail winch (the old boys never had them)

 

Lateral thinking will make you a winner everytime

 

Paul

[Dr John BoothParticipant @drjohnbooth43899]

I am so pleased that everyone has taken my queston to heart and have been involved to such an extent.

I am going to have a go at Pauls challenge and I hope that everyone else will at least have a go at the mental part, my money is on Bob coming up with the cheapest build cost and Ashley producing the most exotic design changes.

 

Has Glynn agreed to judge?

 

John

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I have built the model and found Glynn’s plan easy to follow but a beginner might get stuck when it comes to the bulkheads extending below the hull sides as the plan nor the excellent step by step build process mention that the bulkheads have to be trimmed down.

 

Paul

[Barry FooteParticipant @barryfoote68385]

I think Scratch building is something we really have to aspire too and involves a lot of confidence. I am currently building the Craig ffrom a Model Boats plan and in doing so will move into an area I have never done before; fibreglassing a hull.

[Dr John BoothParticipant @drjohnbooth43899]

Hello again everybody.

 

We seem to have exausted the topic of “have we lost the ability to scratch build” so my next question is.

 

What makes a good scratch builder?

 

Is it the ability to follow plans or the skill at putting the model together, perhaps you think attention to detail is paramount.

Or is it just being brave enough to have a go and risk ridicule.

 

John

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hello John This is a good question and one that has been mulled over many times . From a personal perspective I would consider the ability to think in 3D as one of the basic tenets of a good scratch builder. But what is a good scratch builder?  

Dave Wooley

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

What is a good scratch builder…………………….emmmmm

 

Possibly ,one who can interpret a plan,…………….. build to a conclusion, ……………………….

 

and then say at the end of the build, I enjoyed that………could I do better next time if I did this, this and this, and do something diferently to make it better.

 

I don’t think for one Ioata, that every scratch builder HAS to be exhibition standard, or anywhere near it, just a modeller who can think laterally to overcome problems that are not portrayed on a plan.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Enjoy the build and stuff the rivet counters….if they can do better then they should build a better model.

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Paul  there is nothing wrong with rivet counting providing they are counting so called rivets  for the right reason.  There are many modellers who strive to produce as close a model to the real  vessel as their skill allows . Wanting to do your best   and get the best results is commendable  , if it involves going to the enth degree , I see no problem , that is human nature. Rivet counting and enjoyment in the build process can   for many be one of the same thing .

Dave Wooley

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

That’s fine Dave,

so long as those “rivet counters” don’t condem someone else who has tried their best but not counted quite as many “rivets” as there should be.

 

And sadly there are a lot of those “rivet counters” not only in this hobby but any hobby, who spoil it with their unfortunate critisism..

 

Gawd knows, the number of people who stick their noses up when I take ( or used to take) my lovely old, but not perfect MG C Roadster to shows.

 

And it is that type of “rivet counter” that really p’s me off.

 

You, especially, know the type, having judged more shows than I’ve had hot dates.

Neil.

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Neil    yes this does happen and I agree   unnecessary and unwarranted criticism of ones pride and joy is a criticism to far.   You mention the judging angle which is perhaps the avenue were   the idea  or concept of  rivet counting  is  associated  and perhaps unjustly  were most of the controversy surrounding judging is generated .   My personal view and this is a personal view. If for example a modeler wishes to enter into a statically judged event, then that is their choice.  I would consider it inappropriate to criticize any model  regardless but  if an individual  modeler  requests clarification  as to were the model may be improved  then I will freely offer help   . That may involve making comments about certain aspect of the model  but this of course is done in the knowledge that what is offered is not rivet counting but genuine assistance, which can be seen very  differently  from  actually  being openly critical.   In one way they are entrusting their pride and joy to the judge. .   There is a world of difference between unwarranted criticism and being judged at a show.  As you know In model boating many modelers have no interest whatsoever in entering their model in to a competition  and would never do so,  some of course relish the prospect and actually enjoy the competitive nature of such events. . 

Dave Wooley    

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

My problem is with the “I know better than you brigade” who have never actually built a detailed model but love to censure those that have and whose only expertise is what they have read on the internet.

There seems to be a plethora of these types around every boating lake and they just really upset me.

If I were to enter competitions then I would welcome the constructive comments by the judges as they have earned the right to criticise by virtue of their building ability.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Those problems are hardly confined to model boating Paul, some people are just natural critics – sad really.

 

While there might be the odd exception, I have never found the really top flight modellers to be anything other than supportive and encouraging.

 

Colin

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

ohhh, Noooh,

I’m NOT getting involved in this one, about judging and criticising.no no no no no!!!

good night gents.lol

neil.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Unfortunately my model building is time constrained and also I build such things for myself (or the lad) only, and not for other poeple…meaning..the standard is a personal one only. I would not criticise other modelers efforts, at least not in public…and lets face it we ALL have an opinion on someone elses build. I always accept criticism, as long as there is a point to it., What makes a scratch builder…well on the basis of my previous statement, anyone who “has a go”. What makes a good scratch builder..wouldn’t like to say, there are too many “standards” by which you might judge by. To criticise my own work, Shorty, for instance, there are a hundred things you could say about it, starting with the awful fact that it only superficially resembles the full sized craft, but I didn’t spend an awful long time on it, and I was pleased with the results, and thats all that matters.. .  Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin

I agree that the told you so brigade are not confined to the lake side, I just don’t suffer fools gladly so I tend to upset the pompous fools.

Hence I like to sail first thing in the morning whilst the morons are still nagging their wives.

To get back to Johns question, I think the essence of scratch building is the ability to think for yourself and not to be put off at the first problem.

Paul

[Andy CParticipant @andyc56856]

This is very interesting thread you guys have got going.

Here is the thoughts of one of the new guys to model boat building.

Having just gone the wrong side of 40, I am now just getting into my first real scratch build.  it is from the plan that the late Rick Webb designed for the Solent hover craft.

 

the plan is a fantastic piece of work, very easy to follow and the article in the mag really helps you along.  there are some bits that have to be thought out as it is not clear from the plan or article as to what to do, but that is the whole point of it all.  I had to buy all the stuff needed from a model shop, as I do not have any of these things lying around the house.  I even had to buy a steel rule an da proper craft knife.  Also had to buy the electrics and still have to buy a transmitter kit yet.

 

I do this build at work in my lunch break, at my desk as home life with 2 young ones means there is not alot of time for the hobby.

 

It has been quite an expense to buy all the bits needed and I suppose once you have then you start to have bits left over, a transmitter is already to go and all you would need is another esc and servos etc.

 

I have had a great laugh building this thing and I do hope it floats, my work collegues are all very keen to see it working.  That is also what it is all about.

 

Just thought you would like to hear from a true beginner in the hobby.  Although it must be said, looking at some of the model in the magazine, I do not think I could build them just yet.

 

Andy

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Andy,

 

We are happy to hear from anyone in the hobby. Sounds like you have a very interesting build going there so do keep us informed. If you do get stuck you wan’t want for advice!

 

Colin

[Andy CParticipant @andyc56856]

Thanks Colin,

 

It has been a very enjoyable build.  It must said though, when looking at the model, it could be a lot better.  There are some very rough bits around the edges and it is definatley not going to win a beuty contest.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Andy

 

Dont worry about the rough edges (we all get them) just enjoy the build and don’t let anybody put you off.

 

Paul

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