Home Insurance

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

After seven years of having our home insurance with the same company, they have now decided that selling my completed model ships are a "business" and have refused to renew the home insurance policy. (Although we were listed on all previous policies as "hobby seller!&quot We have never made a claim in all that time. So far, we have not been able to get home insurance with anyone else, because they always ask "have you been refused insurance?" Furthermore, every insurance company that we have contacted since then has, stated that Ebay or any other hobby sellers cannot insure with them! The parrot-like statement "you only have to sell one item, and you are a business!" is getting a bit tiresome. As many of you are aware, I never advertise my models for sale, and will not even accept private commissions!

I am registered with HMRC Income Tax as a "hobby seller", and they are quite happy with it. I wonder if anyone else has come across this, and are there any insurance firms that will insure I only sell them because I build so many, and need the space!

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Rather than approach companies yourself it might be best to go through a broker it you have not already done so. They may have a better idea of where to get specialist insurance.

Colin

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

We have just tried a broker, but not very hopeful. It is quite likely that the home insurance of anyone who just sells odd items on Ebay would be renedered void in the event of a claim – very depressing! Maybe a new rule, they have never bothered before!

Bob

 

Edited By Bob Wilson on 06/11/2019 17:20:16

[Ray Wood 3Participant @raywood3]

Hi Bob

I'm struggling to see any connection with selling on eBay and home insurance? But as I wouldn't do such a thing! Not an issue, but this may only be for commercial selling as a business?

Regards Ray

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

People sell posessions all the time whether on EBay or elsewhere so that shouldn't be an issue.

The key thing is clearly the 'hobby seller' tag although why that should invalidate your home insurance I have no idea. Surely any 'hobby' items regularly put up for sale could be excluded from cover.

This sort of grey area does crop up elsewhere. Like Bob I write stuff that gets published but that is classed as 'home office' and doesn't affect my cover. My motor insurance does include business use at a small extra premium as I am registered as self employed in regard to work for the magazine. and I can attend events to cover them. It doesn't cover commuting or activities which require constant driving such as if I was a self employed plumber etc.

I think that where you are getting caught Bob is that in making model ships you are being classed as 'manufacturing' even if you have no heavy machinery(!) whereas 'home office' just entails sitting in front of the computer you are already using for other things. It is all very arcane though which is why a good broker may be able to help by cutting through the tick box mentality.

As another example, we have had problems getting contents insurance (house is insured separately through Housing Association) because we have a low pitch felt covered roof which is technically classed as flat by insurers. The roof was originally clad in copper which developed persistent leaks and the obvious replacement was high spec felt. Leaky copper was fine but modern felt not so good although technically better. but that's the insurance industry for you, rapacious and inconsistent.

Colin

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Ray,

That is the problem. The law has got it into its nut that if you make something and sell it, you are a business. At the age of 75, I consider myself retired. I build model ships because I enjoy it. I never advertise them, and I will not take private commisions. But neither can I keep them, as the house is not big enough. I could give them away, but I am too mercenary for that, and many of the ones I gave away when I was younger very quickly found their way into shops and auction rooms! I dare say if we can find someone to insure us, the premiums will be astornomical. So in that case, there would be no alternative but to stop building them. I would not know what to do. I dislike football, and sports in general, so that rules out becoming a "couch potato." I suppose they would even class my writing as a business. Could probably take up drinking, I suppose, but having stopped a few years ago, I am again too mercenary to start wasting my money on plonk again. I only took it up in the first place because it was more or less compulsory at sea, especially in passenger liners! The insurance broker has not come back yet, so my future still hangs in the balance.

Bob

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Colin,

They accepted Hobby Seller for many years, as do HMRC. It was only yesterday they said they would not renew. All the companies we asked yesterday said the same thing, even specifying Ebay sellers. One can of course not tell them, and everything is fine as long as you don't put a claim in. But when you do, they investigate you and maybe dredge up the fact that you have sold on Ebay, and then it is "Null & void – hard cheese!" Someone told me today that they had a £3,000 claim rejected simply because they did not say they were selling on Ebay! For some time, I have felt that any sign of private success in this country must be stamped out immediately it comes to light!

Bob

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Bob

It's almost an incentive to "undeclare" yourself as a hobby seller and just carry on regardless. It's an honest man that hangs himself…

Dave M

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Dave

True, but if the house burns down, you lose everything! Maybe I could say I am building them for pleasure, and they are not for sale. Then when there is hardly any room to move, say I am selling them because I haven't the room to keep them, however much I would like to! I tried saying I didn't mind them being excluded from the cover, but they wouldn't have it! Still awaiting the broker.

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

This is where a decent broker can help in mediating to get a personalised policy. There must be underwriters that will take it on,. just a question of identifying them. If current broker can't deliver then try another.

This sort of thing happens all the time with travel insurance when various conditions are included/excluded.

Just bear in mind that the intention of the insurance industry is to take premiums but not pay out on claims. But you know this.

Colin.

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Biggest fear is that whoever does want to take it on would be wanting sky high premiums. I haven't believed the well-known fallacy that you can insure anything for some time now. I was once sent to join the ship in Cape Town, and I was unable to obtain travel insurance from anyone for the simple reason that I only wanted insurance from Heathrow to Cape Town. It stuck in their thick skulls that I did not require insurance to come back (was I coming back at all, they probably thought, and was I planning something sinister). I just could not get througn to them that I was coming back in a passenger liner and not an aeroplane, so in the end, I didn't bother. Obviously, I got there OK, and got back again, so all was well! That was my last flight ever – no more flying anywhere for me – thank goodness!

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Surely the issue i to separte out the normal domestic cover from the not required to be insured modelling construction.

Hopefully somebody will see sense. Just need to connect with an appropriate underwriter.

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Re flying. Yes, not pleasant thse days but unfortunately the only way to get more than a few hundred miles from the UK if that is whatb you want to do. As is in our case.

Colin

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Today, we received one of those standard letters from an insurance company asking us to take out a House and Contents cover policy with them. I phoned them up and explained the model ship hobby situation, saying I don't adverise them and don't accept private commissions. They accepted this without question, and after answering a few questions, we got the cover we wanted, actually quite a bit cheaper than the one who would not renew it.

All's well tat ends well!

Bob

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

actually quite a bit cheaper than the one who would not renew it.

That seems to be the way of the world at present, Bob. Watch out for a large increase in the premium next year……

Dave M

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

No – They have pinned the price at thesame level for the next three years!

Bob

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