another Barrel back launch

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Phil

 

Just out of interest, there was a chap on the lake at Bury, last Sunday, with an electric superfast speedboat and was simply rocketing round the lake at a crazy speed, similar to an IC engined model!

 

I intended getting the motor info etc for Paul and yourself, for the Barrel Back models, but it slipped my memory…..sorry

 

The engine revs must have been at least………20,000 rpm going off the sound!

 

So, Paul, there are suitable electric drives out there that will certainly power your big BB in the manner you`ve been hoping for!

 

Bob

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Prob brushless Bob the revs on my archaic brushed prob only go to about 12 or 15,000 and that would be on their max of 9.6v. after a bit of research looks like these old high performance brushed motors are a dying breed nosram appear to have dicontinued all  their brushed motors so I’d best look after them eh

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Another few hours snuk in the shed and I’ve got all the hardware trial fitted no issues there. the hatch frames have been sanded to final shape and the cockpit liner fitted. nearly ready to fit the 1.5mm birch ply skin. so I guess I’ll have to flex the plastic and get it ordered

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

2 weeks of building so far and now I have to sit back and wait for the ply to arrive. still I’ve still got the seats to upholster and the dashboard to do

 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Phil

Looking good.

I like the way you have foreseen my intent for twin engine installation and utilised the additional longitudinal bearers for installing the prop shafts.
I am curious as to what angle you have managed to install the shafts at, I have achieved 10deg but I have a longer hull to play with. 

Paul

 

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Thanks for the kind words paul I ended up with the props at 16 degrees could’ve maybe got them a touch lower but not much without moving f4 forward. due to lack of materials I was at a loose end today (to windy to take the planes out) and I’ve heard that when I eventually get this to the pond I  will need a stand so i took a trip to my local timber merchant (always a pleasant  experience) and came away with 2.3m of 20mm square pse english oak having parted with the princely sum of £2.00 and an hour or so later I have a cracking stand (if I do say so myself) worthy of the barrelback.

ps: its upside down atm wet varnish and all that

Edited By Phil Winks 1 on 09/05/2009 22:02:11

[Dr John BoothParticipant @drjohnbooth43899]

I am watching this build with particular interest as it looks as though Phil will have his boat on the water before Paul does but I am curious to see how Phil will finish his hull.

Will he use the same diagonal planking as Paul or will he use a different style and will he use the same method of building up the varnish or will he opt for spraying.

And of course the answer to Ashley’s often asked question…….will they both fit little figures to add to the realism.

I will wager 50p that Phil will be the first to float but that Paul’s , due to its size, will be the more impressive……are there any takers?

It would be nice to see the models side by side on the lake…how far apart do you chaps live (I know Paul is near Warrington)

John

 

 

Edited By Dr John Booth on 10/05/2009 08:22:39

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

1st Dr booth let me say I agree with you pauls will look the more impressive not just due to size but also because of his probably greater skills and experience. this being my 1st proper ish scratch model. and the fact that at its greater size he has been able to use mahogany planks. I have so far been unable to source 1.5mm planking. I need them that thin to curve them over the tighter curves on my example. So its looking like having a finnish birch ply skin with stained psuedo planking. I will however be using a high build gloss varnish to finish it using a very expensive sable hair 25mm brush (£5.00 can you believe) it hopefully it will only take about 10 coats and on the subject of figures my family are scouring toy, and charity shops as we speak for a couple to reside in the cockpit the chosen scale (app 1/6th)  seems to preclude the action man/barbie size dolls. Although in theory they need to be about 9″ tall! so maybe I need to rethink this bit. The odds are much of the deck fittings and the figures will be fitted after water trials, which are expected in mid to late june. A techie question now. Where abouts should I be looking for the balance point/CoG? Currently it looks to be coming out from between app 50% of length, to maybe as much as 70% rearwards. I have a fairly heavy bty pack and can slide it a good distance fore and aft to adjust the CoG. Finally I live in Somerset so prob unable to get them both on the same pond however never say never

Edited By Phil Winks 1 on 10/05/2009 10:10:48

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Phil

Try using the mahogany edging veneer that the furniture manufacturers use, it comes in different widths, is very flexible and has heat activated glue on one side that might help you get the planks around the tight curves.

Paul

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Now why did I not think of that paul.  as a joiner I should’ve. Thanks mate now to find it perhaps B&Q worth a try any ways.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Phil

 

Try fleabay and look at item no 220353890975 its a 40mm wide edging that you could cut down in width to whatever size you needed.

 

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Phil, there is a big gap in the doll market between the 10 and 12 inch common or garden “fashion” or Action man , and the 5 inch action figures. I know this as my Fantome has 6 inch dolls, and e-bay was the only source, we searched and searched  charity shops to no avail. Bratz are the only inbetween size thats common, but these are too ….stylized… to be of much use. Like the idea of the ready glued edging veneer, as stuck to the edges of B&Q shelving, perhaps. Ashley

 

PS, as long as yours is faster than Paul`s, as its likely to be at this rate, I wouldn’t worry about who`s is best,,…..

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

OOOHHHH them’s fighting words Ashley I can still stuff the strimmer engine into the beast and fix it to a 60mm racing prop.

 

I cant call mine scratch built anymore as Colin has laid down the rules regarding having not grown the tree from which my timber came from, and now I have to learn how to mine copper ore so that I can make my own motor windings.

 

Paul

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Hmm just had a troll over the net and this option is going to add about £25 to the budget that is currently standing at £40 + the motors and running gear so maybe I need to consider wether I want a good looking boat or if I’m going the whole hog on authenticity. one of my main build briefs was easy affordability. ok the end value would easily exceed the outlay but need to also consider how long it will take  to put on the water and the fact that it will be thrashed about so to speak by my grandkids so to much emotional involvement in its build might not be a good thing. something I really need to sleep on. perhaps I’ll just the lads a couple of those £13 surfrider kits from aglian models if your sticking a strimmer engine in paul I’ll have to switch to two nitro engines I’ve got they’d prob swing a pair of 50mm racing props at 35000 rpm  thanks for the heads up on the figure situation Ashley

Edited By Phil Winks 1 on 10/05/2009 18:11:40

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

IF you go with the cheaper stained ply option for the  planking, try to keep the top as glue free as poss, as my experience of this sort of thing is that any spot of glue will stop the wood soaking up the dye and then the finish look all blotchy. 

 

Paul, stop faffing about and put that strimmer motor in and run it on the sea. You know you want to…why spend all that time on a SLOW OLD BARGE otherwise??????

 

Ashley         (owner of the fastest landing craft in surrey, after having the edge on one of those little RTR Severn  conversions…a speed 400 is a wonderful small motor)..sorry CP.

 

 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I should give a word of caution to any members who, after reading these postings decides to use pre glued veneer on their precious model.

Some heat activated glues are not immune to water or damp and consequently will lift if they come into contact with water (or even a damp cloth) or are left in a humid area.

If you do use a pre glued veneer it is important that you seal it as soon as possible with a suitable varnish (not water based) or you will run the considerable risk of the veneer parting from the base timber.

 

Ashley…is “faffing” a southern expression?

Edited By The Fat Controller on 11/05/2009 06:59:56

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Good point Paul, and Ashley! one way around the glue problem on stained ply is to stain the ply prior to cutting and touch up the cut edges prior to fitting most stain colours are available in touch up pens to make the edges easier to touch up. however I think I’m going the Veneer route (not iron on edging) I’ve found a source of .6mm veneers that will cost less than £15 inc p&p some quality spray contact adhesive should fix it well. (I already have a large tin of industrial spray contact adhesive)  Faffing is I thought a Yorkshire expression Paul comes I believe from the acronym FAF to “Fiddle & Fart” around or in plain speak to waste time   Paul out of interest what weight has your model come out at?

Edited By Phil Winks 1 on 11/05/2009 09:39:19

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Thinking further on the final wood surface how about this for a nice finish as an alternative to mahogany american cherry veneer or maybe use it on the deck with south american mahogany on the hull as I believe some of the original examples were

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Had a little spare time this afternoon and Bob will be so proud of me  I’ve bit the bullet and Scratch built most of the deck fittings I want. Nav light covers are from 1mm ali sheet  tops epoxied on, bollards are from 2 sizes of ali tube and the fairleads filed out of 3mm ali sheet. very satisfying I must say

Also I’ve ordered the veneer so just waiting for the 1.5mm ply to come into stock   

[Dr John BoothParticipant @drjohnbooth43899]

Hello Phil

 

Reading through Paul’s postings I see that he estimated the “total all up weight at 35kg” but during a chat on Sunday he told me that the weight was creeping up toward 40kg and as a result he was looking at retro working some weight saving measures.

 

Your fairleads look very good.

 

John

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

Thanks John the idea just came to me as I was having a tidy up in the shed and found my little pile of odd ali bits. I’m not to happy with the bollards and will try using the remaining 3mm ali to make a closer representation of what I’ve seen on the full size pics I’ve found on the net. I’m suprised at the weight of pauls as its only 500mm longer than mine and I’m looking at about 5kg complete with running gear. Mind you I’ve got used to building light with my model aircraft. One Idea I’ve had to strengthen the lower hull with very little weight is as I skin it to fill the lower voids with expanding PU foam this stuff sets quite solid but has little weight and will support the outer skin in the event of a collision with a submerged obstacle I hope

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

What?……………………………40g?………………….That`s 88lb in real money!!!!!!!

 

Can`t believe it really……..88lb????…………..Gerraway!

 

 

Bob the disbeliever

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Believe it Bob

 

This is one big and heavy boat, designed to withstand high speed impacts and being thrown around by my grandson.

The weight is getting out of hand so I am trying to shave a few ounces off it.

 

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Blimey Paul……………..How are YOU going to handle that weight?

 

What does it weigh at the moment?

 

Bob……………..Staggered!

[Phil Winks 1Participant @philwinks1]

STAGGERED TOO. that really is a big boys toy Paul remind me it is a mere 1.5m ain’t it. how low will it sit in the water if I’ve got the maths right mine will draw about an inch and a half except for props & rudders at 10lbs. Any way I feel I’ve really got into the true meaning of scratch build. I decided that I’ll want a couple of neat coils of rope on the fore and aft decks and have nothing thick enough in. However thinking back to my days as a scout leader when on a course once we we’re taught how to make rope from sisal string. the procedure involves unwinding under tension 3 lengths of string then rewinding the 3 together. I’ve done a test piece and will document the process for those who are interested when I make the final lengths up.

Also today while looking round halfords I found some ali tape a bit pricey but hey its shiny and waterproof so I thought great for the metal bow trim and hatch edges. then on the way home mulling over how I am to make/source something for the air intakes it hit me so while the better half has tea on the go I knocked this prototype out of Obeechi and covered it with the tape and hey presto another issue solved

Edited By Phil Winks 1 on 12/05/2009 18:01:30

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