Ah the halcyon days when you could have a 'weigh in' for some hard earned beer tokens. No I didn't strip church roofs or dug up cables but I did manage some sites where a little scrap had to be removed. (3x22t wagon loads a day for 3 weeks )

These were the happy days before the government tied up and gagged the scrap industry.

I'm with Len on this, yes metal theft is a problem these days, people weighing metals in need to be licensed in order to prevent thieves from cashing in on their misappropriated goods, but why do they want to stop people from obtaining a bit of metal that others have thrown away, that will be paid for & made use of ?

Makes one wonder if the legislator has shares in the NEW metal supply industry & doesn't want anyone using metal unless they buy it NEW from them.

People buying a bit of metal from a scrapyard are actually supporting the legal disposal of metal, by making a licenced yard a going business, it's no different to buying your bits of metal at B&Q. (apart from the price)

Edited By Kip Woods on 22/10/2014 21:11:27

I am certainly no lawyer nor particularly up on matters legal (so please apply the usual caveats to the following); however, the above discussion made me curious, so I decided to look up the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 2013 (see **LINK**). Having read this, and also the accompanying guidelines (**LINK**) I'm inclined to think that the man at the scrap yard may have been at least partially barking up the wrong tree.

Yes, in order to carry out a business as a scrap metal dealer, one does indeed have to be licensed. However, that means "a business which consists wholly or partly in buying or selling scrap metal", whereas for example "tradespersons will not require a scrap metal dealer's licence if buying or selling scrap metal is an incidental function of their business (eg being a plumber or electrician)". Mutatis mutandis one would have thought that this tradesperson licence exemption should apply equally to an end-consumer sale, in casu to a modeller …

It is, however, true that a scrap dealer must establish the name and address of any person to whom they dispose of scrap metal, and also keep a record of that transaction for three years. Likewise, it is likely that exchanging one scrap metal for another falls foul of the rules on cashless payments, which only allow payment by crossed cheque or (traceable) electronic transfer.

Given the above, I would suspect either that they did not fully know what they were talking about, or that they found it not quite worth their time to do all the paperwork for the sole purpose of and rather meagre profit margin on selling a few kilos of lead, and thus tried to fob you off on the straightforward sale but were willing to do a deal that included a larger amount of metal changing hands … ?!

/Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 23/10/2014 07:49:00

Edited By Banjoman on 23/10/2014 07:49:42

Edited By Banjoman on 23/10/2014 08:17:28

Edited By Banjoman on 23/10/2014 08:19:25

Today's lead settlement price on the LME (London Metal Exchange, **LINK**) is about £1.27/kilo, whereas lead flashing (**LINK**) can be bought new for around £4,45/kilo and scuba diving ballast lead shot, if bought in bulk (**LINK**), can be had for around £4,50/kilo.

Certainly not cheap, compared to what lead used to cost, but not impossibly expensive either, I'd say …

**LINK**

9Kgs = £40. Not a lot if, like me, you only use about 200-400g per model, but if you've a big tug to ballast then this is not the cheapest way. I always suggest using bigger batteries in those cases. You might as well have the weight doing something useful, and a 12v 5A SLA battery works out at only about 50% more expensive per Kg than sheet lead flashing.

DM

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 23/10/2014 10:02:45

AmyJ. I knew you would have the right answer!

HOWEVER, having splashed out on a roll of roofers lead, it is very handy for ballasting boats. Easy to cut and lays nice and flat on the bottom..is nice and clean.

Although I used a fair bit on the Lotus, there is more than half a roll left and this represents £40 or so, but will last me for few years yet, and so in the grand scheme of things is not that expensive…considering the cost of the hardware you will be fitting out anything with,

DM is as usual correct…fill the boat with batteries, not lead!

Ashley

Back to the legal garbage for a moment. I can find no reference to qualifications or licences being required for BUYING scrap metal, just for selling the stuff. After all the risk is that stolen scrap is sold to a dealer for cash and that transaction is kept off-record to aid onward disposal, again off the records. Unless it's governed by some overarching legislation (e.g. because it's poisonous, dangerous or militarily restricted etc) then there's no reason why anyone shouldn't be allowed to buy scrap metal as long as he is prepared to supply his name and address to the dealer to complete the seller's statutory records. The law isn't always an ass (except when it comes to taxation……………..)

Kip
Forgive me for forgetting those who sail things propelled with sticks and rags, but you and I had been having some chat about speed controllers so it didn't occur to me that you were a yachtie too. Hair-shirt time.

DM

In other words:

a) Only scrap metal dealers need a licence to deal; and

b) If one tells you to clear off you don't hang about to argue the minutiae of the Scrap Metal Dealers Act with him ('cos he's probably got a big stick and an even bigger dog).

Notwithstanding the above I've found that the careless flourishing of hard currency usually weakens the resolve of such tradespersons (well, now that I don't have my HMC&E VAT Officer's I/D card any more!).

DM (Ogre – Retired)