Solar Panels & The National Grid

Advert

Solar Panels & The National Grid

Home Forums Soapbox Solar Panels & The National Grid

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #33648
    Bob Wilson
    Participant
      @bobwilson59101

      Watching the news tonight, it showed a factory that had covered its roof with solar panels. This powered the factory, but the owner then proudly declared that any surplus electricity was fed into the National Grid and he was getting a considerable sum of money back for it each year!

      GREAT!

      But for such as myself with a good knowledge of electricity, it doesn't make sense!

      The National Grid is Alternating Current (isn't it?) The output from a solar panel is Direct Current (Isn't it?), so –

      HOW DO THEY FEED DC INTO AN AC SYSTEM?

      Or is this another fictional reporting?

      Bob

       

      Edited By Bob Wilson on 09/03/2012 19:25:36

      Advert
      #7934
      Bob Wilson
      Participant
        @bobwilson59101
        #33650
        Dave_P
        Participant
          @dave_p

          Hi Bob,

          DC can be converted to AC by an inverter. I live fairly close to the inverter station nr Ashford. Its job is to convert DC to AC. Depending on demand we either export electricity to France or import it via this station, mostly importing these days. The electricity is transmitted between the two countries as DC.

          You can buy inverters that plug into car lighter sockets that can be used to power laptops etc. I use one for my work. The wonder of modern power electronics make these units reasonably sized for the power produced and are not too expensive.

          See this link for converter station

          http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.107005,0.974155&hl=en&num=1&t=h&z=17

          Edited By Navigator on 09/03/2012 19:31:04

          Funny thing is today I was working on a generator in the sewage treatment works that can be seen next to the converter complex, the area with the round filter beds.

          Cheers

          Dave

           

          Edited By Navigator on 09/03/2012 19:33:47

          Edited By Navigator on 09/03/2012 19:36:21

          #33651
          Bob Wilson
          Participant
            @bobwilson59101

            Thanks for explanation. I knew it could be converted, but I would have thought that the cost of conversion would make it uneconomical on a big scale, especially to get a 50Hz sine wave to match up rather than a jagged square wave.

            I am just going off to look at your link.

            Thanks

            Bob

            #33652
            Bob Wilson
            Participant
              @bobwilson59101

              Found this:

              http://midsummerenergy.co.uk/solar-panel-information/Guides/NationalGrid

              As I suspected – costs a fortune!

              Bob

              Edited By Bob Wilson on 09/03/2012 19:46:25

              Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 10/03/2012 20:17:55

              #33653
              Dave_P
              Participant
                @dave_p

                Hi Bob,

                Here is another link for wikipedia explaining in great detail HVDC transmission. Very interesting reading if you have the time and interest.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC

                #33654
                Dave_P
                Participant
                  @dave_p

                  Thats the thing Bob these so called 'green' systems cost a lot more than people are told.

                  Dave

                  #33656
                  Gareth Jones
                  Participant
                    @garethjones79649

                    We looked at having solar panels fitted to our roof a while ago but were put off when the goverment changed the feed in tarriff that we would have been paid for the power generated. Wiggly amps are a bit of a mystery to me but I do know a bit about the system and I can confirm that each solar panel installation has its own inverter which converts the DC generated by the panels to 50 Hz AC. I assume that the inverter looks at the mains grid voltage and makes sure that the voltage sine wave it is generating is synchronised with the grid voltage so that any power fed back into the grid does not corrupt the 50 Hz waveform that the main grid supplies.

                    However that brings me to the question I really wanted to ask which is what do all these wind turbines generate, is that DC with individual inverters or do they generate AC power. If its AC power, how do they synchronise the voltage sine wave with the grid?

                    #33658
                    Bob Wilson
                    Participant
                      @bobwilson59101

                      Thanks for replies, all of which I have considered and wondered the same things. I never seriously considered getting a solar panel system, but I always wonder about it. Inverters are probably very expensive and not necessarily very efficient. If the turbines generate ac, they must have some method of stabilising all the fluctuations so that the 50Hz doesn't get messed up, to say nothing of the voltage fluctuations.

                      Bob

                      #33659
                      Colin Bishop
                      Moderator
                        @colinbishop34627

                        Keeping sailing yacht batteries charged up while at sea has always been something of a holy grail and various types of wind generator and solar panel are fitted but with only limited success in supplying a decent amount of onboard power. The cheapest and most effective means of providing auxiliary power has always been a small petrol/diesel generator. Nuff said?

                        Colin

                        #33662
                        Gareth Jones
                        Participant
                          @garethjones79649

                          In some marks of the Hawk jet trainer we used two inverters which ran from the main 28 V DC generator supply and each provided up to 3 KVA (effectively 3 KW) of 3 phase 400 Hz 115 V AC power. Each unit was about twice the size of a shoebox and absolutely packed with power electronics components, diodes, capacitors, transistors, resistors, wiring and a cooling fan. When you took the lid off it was a thing of beauty, all neatly packaged and completely full of 'stuff'. They were pretty heavy and expensive but very reliable ( a good bit of German engineering). The most unreliable part was the only moving component, the fan.

                          I would think that the solar panel units are now mass produced to a common standard and the price has been brought down to a much lower level. I suspect the reliability may well be very good, its a pretty benign intallation, no extremes of temperature or vibration. A bit like a television really, our current one is nearly twenty years old and has never shown any sign of problems.

                          #33670
                          Len Ochiltree
                          Participant
                            @lenochiltree67043

                            Colin,

                            I missed some of the above comments as some of the right hand side Adverts cover them up!, be a dear and sort this out please.

                            Len.

                            Ps, Dave , do you belong to any local model boat clubs?.

                            #33671
                            Dave_P
                            Participant
                              @dave_p

                              Hi Len,

                              I do not belong to any club at present. We do not have one in Ashford despite trying to set one up some years ago but failing due to lack of water.

                              I have toyed with joining either Cygnets or Dover but have to be honest I do not have a model ready for use at present. I lost a lot of interest some time ago even had a false start at building the HDML. This was mainly due to ill health and some other problems.

                              Sorry I appear to have gone right off topic.

                              Dave

                              #33672
                              Peter Fitness
                              Participant
                                @peterfitness34857

                                The use of solar panels is very common in Australia due to the high number of sunny days. In NSW, the government introduced a subsidy for panel and inverter installation, with a payment made for excess energy generated by the householder. The scheme was such a success that the subsidy was dramatically reduced because it was discovered that the high take-up was going to cost the government too much.

                                Currently, a 3 kilowatt system costs around $6000 but, as our electricity bill is over $2000 per year, we are still considering having solar installed on our farm house when we move back there. Even though the payment for excess power has been reduced, it would only take us 3 years to pay for the system and from then on our power would basically cost us nothing.

                                Peter.

                                #33673
                                Telstar
                                Participant
                                  @telstar

                                  Gareth Wind farms generate 3 phase ac. I think they are started using the generator as a motor to turn the blades, and when 'up to speed' the blades pitch is adjusted to try to overspeed the system, turning the 'motor' into a synchronus generator. A similar startup was used on a gas (not petrol ) driven system in a hospital the generator turned over the gas engine to synchronus speed (1500 rpm) then the decompressors were dropped and fuel Gas turned on, the engine then drove the generator. The big benefit was the cooling water from the engine was used to heat the building.

                                  3 phase 400Hz supplies were normally used for Selsyn synchro electromechanical controllers in my day, the supply being generated useing motor generator sets, (rotory convertors) befor the days of transistors

                                  #33955
                                  Andy Hustler
                                  Participant
                                    @andyhustler32076

                                    My ex girlfreinds uncle lived up in the brecons and had a windmill behind his farm to provide electric and a water turbine in the stream below . He made so much electric he sold it back to the grid , clever guy .

                                  Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
                                  • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                  Code of conduct | Forum Help/FAQs

                                  Advert

                                  Latest Replies

                                  Home Forums Soapbox Topics

                                  Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                  Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                  View full reply list.

                                  Advert

                                  Newsletter Sign-up