Very old Vosper MTB

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Very old Vosper MTB

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  • #98566
    Andy KAYE
    Participant
      @andykaye68343

      I am looking for some help as I know nothing about Radio Controlled boats.

      I found a large radio controlled boat – Vosper MTB – in the loft of the house I moved in to. Unfortunately the transmitter / controller was not with it. I have connected a battery directly to the motor to ensure it is in working order…and it is.

      Looking into the works inside the hull, I can see that there no receiver either. The cable that would have been attached to the receiver is in the hull but not attached to anything. Everything looks clean and I expect that all components are working although I have no chance to verify that.

      So I am looking for information as to what transmitter and receiver I would need to control the boat. Also as this boat is some 40-50 years old I reckon, I would need to know if todays modern components are compatible with what is inside this old boat.

      Any help would be gratefully received.

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      #3040
      Andy KAYE
      Participant
        @andykaye68343
        #98570
        Dave Cooper 6
        Participant
          @davecooper6

          Hi Andy and welcome to the forum.

          As a first test, I would pop it into the bath and check for leaks.

          It may be an old "Aerokits", or similar, design /kit.

          Send us a photo or two (you'll need to set up an 'Album' first), plus some measurements, weights etc that you can derive.

          I'm sure the experts will be able to advise you on any repairs, preparation, radio and speed controllers that you may need.

          Dave

          #98571
          Andy KAYE
          Participant
            @andykaye68343

            Hello Dave,

            I had wanted to attach a photo but didn't know how. I will check out how to create an album and attach a few photos. I will also weigh and measure the boat to provide further information. Thanks for the advice. Andy

            #98572
            Richard Simpson
            Participant
              @richardsimpson88330

              Hi Andy and welcome to the forum. First of all modern radio and electronics components can still be used to operate any motor so no worries there. Pictures would be a huge help as we can then see exactly what you have got and what you need to get it operational. You will have to make some decisions yourself but, assuming that you will only want to control this model you can go for a fairly simple and cheap radio but you will want to go for one with the receiver included. The simplest set up then would be a speed controller and a servo for the rudder but we cannot help with the speed controller until we know the size of the motor.

              There may well be two or possibly three cables going to the receiver so we need to know a little bit more before being able to help. The cables would be:

              1) One from the steering servo that moves the rudder to the receiver.

              2) One from the speed controller to the receiver.

              3) If your speed controller does not use a battery elimination circuit you would also need a seperate power supply for the receiver from a small battery pack.

              Pictures will be a great start, if you have trouble just let us know.

              #98573
              Dave Cooper 6
              Participant
                @davecooper6

                Hi Andy,

                Just a few notes on the photography /Album side may be of some use :-

                1. I use my phone's camera. This generates a 'JPeg' image which is usually too large for the Forum.

                2. I then drag this into "MS Paint" (comes with most Windows computers) and re-size it to around 600 x 400 pixels.

                3. After logging-in, go to the grey bar (not the one on the dark blue bar) at the top of the screen and click on "Albums". Once in there, click on "Create a New Album".

                4. You can then upload images using the "Browse" buttons. Remember to Save your changes. Once they are in the new album, you can use the little camera icon in the Forum's posting box, together with any other message.

                If the above sounds very complex and long-winded don't worry ! It will soon become 'second-nature'

                Good Luck

                Dave

                ps This is just my way of doing it. Probably the others will have more sophisticated methods…Check out the Pilot Cutter images to see the results ! 

                Edited By Dave Cooper 6 on 18/11/2021 16:15:08

                #98578
                Andy KAYE
                Participant
                  @andykaye68343

                  I have loaded some photos. The main thing to say is the works are based on FUTABA products. Photos 13 and 14 show where I think the receiver should be attached as the red wire is just teminated with a ring terminal. Photo 12 I hope shows the whole path of the red wire through a switch to the power controller.. The should be two servos, one for rudder and one for propeller if I have got that right. Anyway please as for more photos or whatever. I appreciate your help. Dave I didn't see you album advice until after I upload the photos, but will resize them if necessary.

                  Album can be viewed here:  Album

                  Colin

                  Edited By Colin Bishop on 18/11/2021 19:29:38

                  #98579
                  Colin Bishop
                  Moderator
                    @colinbishop34627

                    It does seem to have a receiver, the item marked 'M' looks like a Futaba M series 6 channel RX. The other stuff attached to it appears to be a primitive speed controller. The M series 27MHz crystal controlled Futaba gear was popular back in the 1970s.

                    The cable you think connected to the receiver is probaly the connection to the 4.8volt receiver battery supply pack which is also missing.

                    You might be able to pick up an old transmitter but you would be better off taking out all the old control gear and replacing the radio with a 2.4 GHz rasdio set.

                    The motor is almost certainly a geared Marx Decaperm. These were well engineered motors but not as efficient as modern brushed or brushless types.

                    For a simple straightforward setup you could keep the Decaperm and use a NiMH power pack and modern brushed speed controller. This would proabaly give you a fairly brisk speed.

                    Fitting a brushless motor and LiPo batteries would up the performance no end but would be more of a learning curve and more expensive.

                    I'm sure other members will be able to offer advice..

                    Coln

                     

                    Edited By Colin Bishop on 18/11/2021 19:50:33

                    #98580
                    Dave Cooper 6
                    Participant
                      @davecooper6

                      Hi again Andy

                      Looks like you managed the Album creation OK !

                      As Colin says, I think the choice is (a) restore as a vintage model on 27 MHz radio, or, (b) come into the new world of 2.4 GHz.

                      I went the vintage route with my little RAF launch. It was quite fun to finish a project that my son and a friend had begun many years earlier. The main snag is that 27Mhz is prone to interference (non-intentional) from other modellers /radio sets. I mainly sail this one far away from others.

                      For the Pilot Cutter, I'll be going 2.4 Ghz as I'll be sailing mainly with other yachts. The advantage is that '2.4' is, for the main part, interference free and gives a certain 'peace-of-mind'.

                      Incidentally, last night at a club auction, I picked up a used 2.4 transmitter with manuals plus a bag of servos for £10…..even buying new, 2.4 has now become very cheap compared to the radios of old.

                      Let us know how you get on – plenty of help here,

                      Dave

                      #98581
                      Richard Simpson
                      Participant
                        @richardsimpson88330

                        Just for interest the Futaba FP-MC4 is the speed controller, which consists of the unit inside the box alongside the receiver as well as the power amplifier, which is the large black finned box on the bulkhead.

                        I would start by buying a cheap 2.4 ghz radio transmitter and receiver and plugging the speed controller, the rudder servo and a power supply into it. You might find it all works. Failing that a new speed controller might be the next step.

                        This is a scan of the speed controller manual, which might help you make a bit more sense of it all:

                        img244.jpg

                        #98582
                        ashley needham
                        Participant
                          @ashleyneedham69188

                          The red wire with the ring is almost certainly the positive battery lead. That it has a ring terminal also mean likely the boat would have had a sealed lead-acid type battery.

                          The Decaperm came in 6 and 12v versions as far as my research shows, and when I “restored” the big destroyer I have I did not trace the battery wiring to see which version of motor I had. I am running it on a 7.2v Nimh stick as an “in between” compromise (it’s using direct drive) and the motors are coping very well with brass 45mm props. I didn’t see any markings on the motor to tell me which version I have??

                          With regard to your model….it depends on what you want to do with it as to how much you want to spend and how fast you want to go.

                          If the model will work with simply a new 4x cell receiver battery pack and a Nimh battery, you are quids in.

                          If not, as suggested, buy a new 2.4 gig set and a new BEC equipped ESC (so eliminating the need for a separate RX battery pack) as this is the most trouble free way to go.

                          Ashley

                          #98585
                          Andy KAYE
                          Participant
                            @andykaye68343

                            Thank you for all your advice. I need to study what you suggest needs to be done to take this forward. Although I would class myself as a 'practical person' – I am in the processs of completely renovating this house – I have no knowledge of RC boats and very little knoowledge of electronics. So it is likely I will be back shortly with some pretty basic quesstions.

                            What do I want to do with the boat? Get it working to acceptable level so going 2.4 Gig is probably the way. I would like to try it out on a boating lake and after, it will probably not get much more action. So it is a little 'offshoot project' like my model railways, while I plough on replacing electrics, central heating, re-modelling rooms and decorating others in the house.

                            #98587
                            Richard Simpson
                            Participant
                              @richardsimpson88330

                              Something like this might be all you need to get up and running.

                              Radio

                              and you would also need one of these to power the receiver:

                              Receiver Battery

                              My apologies, I hadn't noticed that you already has a set of instructions for the speed controller.

                              I think with the above items, plugging the speed controller into the receiver Channel 1, this is usually the left hand stick up and down, the steering into whatever channel is on the other stick with a left to right movement, most sets it is Channel 2, and the battery pack plugged into the power socket of the receiver you may well find everything works without any further expense.

                              #98588
                              Dave Cooper 6
                              Participant
                                @davecooper6

                                Andy – I assume your house renovations include a bath ? If so, do a leak test on the hull first. If not, or the hull is too big, plastic kiddies paddling pools are quite cheap these days.

                                It would be a shame to push it out on a boating lake only to watch it disappear below….you wouldn't be pioneering anything !

                                Regards,

                                Dave

                                #98593
                                Ray Wood 3
                                Participant
                                  @raywood3

                                  Hi Andy,

                                  You have a Veron Fast Patrol Boat there 52" long quite a large hull for your Decaperm If it's using the geared drive ? I think it will cruise around at a decent speed not enough power to get her up on the plane how she should be, reading other folks experience's it was quite fast with a 10cc glow motor back in the day !!

                                  If your keen enough and want a better performance look up the relatively new brushless motors and Lithium Polymer battery options for power she will fly but quite a large investment involved.

                                  Good Luck Ray

                                  #98601
                                  Andy KAYE
                                  Participant
                                    @andykaye68343

                                    Not sure how to reply to a specific post – I apologise.

                                    Richard Simpson, thank you for your suggested puchases. I will go ahead with that at the end of the month, when my next pension payment comes in. I will follow your advice on using channels of the receiver. When I have incorporated things I will bopund to be back with some more questions.

                                    Dave Cooper. I will certainly give it a float test before I do anything because that will determine if I actually need to buy the new bits.

                                    Ray Wood. I am not sure where I am going with this project at the moment but I would like it if you could give me a couple of links to the motor and battery that you suggest. You never know, I might get to like the hobby if I get her going in the first place.. Cost isn't necessary an issue as when I finally finish my home renovations, there will be some spare cash. Also, I am aware that life is not all about hard graft and that hobby time is a nice diversion.

                                    #98622
                                    Ray Wood 3
                                    Participant
                                      @raywood3

                                      Hi Andy,

                                      I looked at your photos and see you have the larger Hectaperm rated at 12 volts and direct drive to the prop so should produce enough power for a decent speed, May I suggest you obtain a 7 cell 9.2 volt Nickel Metal Hydride battery pack and a 40 amp ECS it should go pretty well

                                      Regards Ray

                                      #98624
                                      Andy KAYE
                                      Participant
                                        @andykaye68343

                                        Hello Ray, I know very little about RC boats so Ebay searched "7 cell 9.2 volt Nickel Metal Hydride battery pack" and it came back nothing although a fair number of 7.2volt ones showed up.. Can you point me in the right direction please? Also the "40 amp ECS" should be a 40 amp ESC I guess

                                        #98628
                                        Malcolm Frary
                                        Participant
                                          @malcolmfrary95515

                                          NiMH packs appear in increments of 1.2 volts. A 7 cell pack will be labelled as 8.4 volts, an 8 cell pack as 9.6. The 7.2 volt packs have 6 cells.

                                          Traditionally, with a 2 channel set from back in the day, the right hand stick going left and right does the steering. The servo for that job usually plugs into channel 1. The left hand stick up and down is the throttle and uses channel 2. As a result, the first sign of radio interference (the bane of 27MHz AM) is the rudder servo twitching.

                                          With modern sets having 4 channels, it becomes 1 for rudder, 3 for throttle, but still the same sticks.

                                          #98630
                                          Richard Simpson
                                          Participant
                                            @richardsimpson88330

                                            A single NiMH cell is 1.2 volts, so you can work out the total voltage from the number of cells.

                                            In my experience the left hand stick up and down, which is frequently used as the throttle, has always been channel 1 so the moral is obviously read the manual that you get with your radio and make sure you connect up the speed controller and servo as you want to use them. Also bear in mind that some manufacturers, Spektrum is one, actually label their receivers with their usual function rather than a number so it may be worthwhile doing some testing on the bench to be sure you identify all the channels. This is easily done with a single servo, plugging it into each channel and see which control stick and direction it relates to.

                                            Most radios, apart from one or two such as the Robbe F14 and F16, unfortunately are specifically designed for model aircraft so can be labelled as such so the labelling refers to normal aircraft functionality.

                                            spektrum.jpg

                                             

                                            Edited By Richard Simpson on 23/11/2021 10:34:38

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