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Silicon Wire

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  • #26583
    Tim Cooper
    Participant
      @timcooper90034
      Does anyone know what size silicon wire to use for power connections? 
       
      I’m building a Model Slipway Tamar, using Graupner 600 ECO motors and going to power them from 9.6v battery packs.  One of the sites I looked at had 7.5 amp to 31 amp cable available.
       
      Tim 
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      #1957
      Tim Cooper
      Participant
        @timcooper90034
        #26586
        Len Ochiltree
        Participant
          @lenochiltree67043
          I use Domestic flex cable off of old Appliances/Vacumes etc. Shock Horror !!.
           
          Len.
          #26587
          neil hp
          Participant
            @neilhp
            so do i len…..nowt wrong with that. lol
            #26588
            Dave Milbourn
            Participant
              @davemilbourn48782
              14AWG silicon-covered multi-strand cable is the stuff we recommend. You can get it from Component Shop in North Wales.
              Just a satisfied customer, as they say.
              DM
              #26589
              ashley needham
              Participant
                @ashleyneedham69188
                Its funny, most of my boats have brown and blue wiring…
                 
                 
                #26590
                Rick Devonshire
                Participant
                  @rickdevonshire
                  Very interesting, so flex from domestic appliances may be OK as long as we are not after the model world water speed record…..
                  How about wire from the motor accessories shop?
                  Not quite as flexible as the silicon coated stuff but you can get it rated for 17 or 20 amps.
                  Rick.
                   
                  #26591
                  Bob Abell 2
                  Participant
                    @bobabell2
                    Having spent a small fortune on the motor and controller……….etc
                     
                    Why sink the ship for a Ha`perth o` Tar?
                     
                    This silicon wire is lovely to use…………….it flex`s so nicely!
                     
                     
                    Bob
                    #26593
                    Len Ochiltree
                    Participant
                      @lenochiltree67043
                      Hi Bob / must have a Bob or 2,
                      Having been brought up not to waste money, I have always been economic with money.
                      If you throw enough money at something it will eventually work, or in the case of Slo mo shun ?? Just how much does this Beast weigh Bob..
                       
                      Len.
                      #26594
                      Bob Abell 2
                      Participant
                        @bobabell2
                        Hello Len
                         
                        The beast weighs 27 lb…….all up
                         
                        Since it`s not an aeroplane. the weight is not too important……..a pair of Brushless motors should eat the job…….imo!
                         
                        We shall see!…………………..Bob
                        #26598
                        Tim Cooper
                        Participant
                          @timcooper90034
                          Thanks Chaps
                           
                          I’ll take Dave Milbourn’s advice and look for some 14AWG wire.
                           
                          Tim Cooper
                          #26606
                          Telstar
                          Participant
                            @telstar
                            Hi   The size of wire can be critical especially on larger or high speed models.
                            Useing 3core flex off domestic items can lead to problems.  Smaller appliances Table lamps radios etc are usually fitted with 0.75sq.mm wire which is only rated to carry 7.5A  and useing it on a larger model that needs 10 to 15A for its motor will result in wireing overheating, possably melting.
                            cable used for electric heaters or kettles will be 2.5sq.mm which is rated at 20A max hence much more suited for models.
                            normal ratings:-
                                                       0.75sq.mm   18AWG      7.5A
                                                        1.0                  17             10A
                                                        1.5                  16             16
                                                        2.5                  14             20
                                                        4.0                  12             25
                                                        6.0                  10             50 
                                                      10.0                   8              74
                             
                             
                            These ratings are for preferred sizes in UK and are derated for higher working temperatures.
                            hope this helps cheers Tom
                            #26608
                            Charles Oates
                            Participant
                              @charlesoates31738
                               Hi all,
                                    Am I missing something here? If  .7.5 sq mm flex is rated at 7.5 amps, at 240 volts isn’t that 1800 watts? something few models get near.
                                That said I still prefer silicon wire, its flexibility make instalation easier and it is less prone to breaking because of vibration.
                               Charlie.
                               
                              #26609
                              Telstar
                              Participant
                                @telstar
                                Hi Charles   You are missing something.    The current carrying capacity of wires is simply that,  voltage has nothing to do with it.  The quality of insulation on the wire determines the max. voltage a cable can withstand without breaking down.
                                For example a 5A fuse will fuse at (say) 5.5A on 6Volt or on 440Volt    the current rating stays the same, and a fuse is only a thin piece of wire in a safe place to melt (so it doesn’t set fire to its surroundings). 
                                One of the things with SOME of the ‘experts’ on model forums is they mixe up amps ,volts and watts (power) with gay abandon. when discussing electrics.  Having worked with electrics for over 40 years, and DC motors for nearly as long, I accept some knowledge of how it works.
                                Electrician Tom
                                #26616
                                Charles Oates
                                Participant
                                  @charlesoates31738
                                  AH now I see. Thanks Tom, it’ only obvious now you’ve explained it. Like you I’ve had 40 years of modeling but it’s still good to learn something. Do you know if the flexi silicon wire I use make any difference to power loss in the wireing? ( you can tell I’ve been listening to someone else), or is any diference not important at the power levels I use, say 20 to 100 watts at 6 to 12 volts?
                                   charlie.
                                   
                                  #26620
                                  Telstar
                                  Participant
                                    @telstar

                                    Hi Charles,
                                      To the best of my knowledge ‘flexi silicon wire’ is basically a copper conductor, so provided it is correctly rated (sized) power loss will be minimum.
                                       ‘flexi’ means that the copper conductor has been made up of a large number of thin wires all together allowing it to bend easiley.
                                       ‘silicon’ is the silicon rubber insulation (cover) on the wire which, as well as being softer than most plastic insulation, is very heat resistant and does not melt.
                                       The working voltage of most wires will not be damaged by 6 or 12V (voltage rateing is the max voltage that can be safely applied to a wire without breakdown of the insulation)
                                      
                                      As far as current ratings ,  for your worst case example,
                                        I=W/V       I=100/6    say 20A max,
                                       from my previous post 2.5 sq.mm or 14 AWG wire will be OK.
                                      Power loss in the wireing can be estimated useing the resistivity of copper the length of wire used and its cross sectional area
                                          R=rho x L / A   this shows the thicker the wire the lower the resistance, the longer the wire the higher the resistance

                                    Cross sectional area mm2    Resistance mΩ/m  
                                        1.0                                               18.0  
                                        1.5                                               12.0  
                                        2.5                                               7.4  
                                        4.0                                               4.6  
                                        6.0                                               3.0  
                                       10.0                                             1.83  
                                       16.0                                             1.15  

                                    Using the previous figures 20A with say 2meter of wire
                                    would give a volt drop along the wire of:
                                            v=I x R    v=20 x (7.4 x 2) mV
                                                       v=0.294V
                                    So you would loose 0.294V for each 2 meters of wire in the circuit
                                    Sorry to be long winded I try to give explanations not just statments

                                    Hope this helps Tom

                                    PS sorry Tim we seem to have hijacked your thread

                                    #26625
                                    Robin Lee
                                    Participant
                                      @robinlee31938
                                      Hi Tom , that is an excellent analysis based on scientific knowledge rather than just a hunch. Just what we want on this forum – well done.
                                      Robin
                                      #26645
                                      Charles Oates
                                      Participant
                                        @charlesoates31738
                                        Hi again Tom,
                                                      Thanks again, the info is very useful, the voltage drop in my existing models isn’t enough to worry me at the speeds  they run at. However now I can work it out it will be very helpful in planing the instalation in a larger model I am planning for the future. Knowing this stuff helps in planning the instalation of the equipment.
                                          Tim, I also appologise for hijacking your thread.
                                         Charlie.
                                         
                                         
                                        #26646
                                        Dave Milbourn
                                        Participant
                                          @davemilbourn48782
                                          Charlie
                                          It’s always best to keep all power wiring as short as possible. Apart from the cost of 14AWG silicon and the potential voltage drops, longer wires will create more RF interference.
                                          DM
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