Vintage yacht 36R

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hi Bob and all,

major milestone reached – the deck is complete! (well just have to scrape it and fill a couple of ends) but its all done.

Concentrated on the hull today and have it all sanded down and shaped. Used P38 for first time, as had a couple of small holes to fill around the lead ballast, and rudder tube. Boy it goes off quick – I'll make my pea much smaller (or create a bigger golf ball) next time – a P38 joke!

Just have to sand that down, vacuum all the dust up and then Ezi-cote the hull, tonights task.

Once the hulls coated I'll give it a float in the test tank – I can then see where it wants its water line and compare that to the plan. Weight is about 11 1/4 lbs so looking good for now. I even got around to making a stand!

Have the timber in for the masts, so I'll get them done tomorrow (after planting the cauliflowers and beans) and then start making the deck fittings. I purchased a braine gear from SailsETC so nearly there. Will commence sail making once I have the mast and booms for atemplate as well as the plan. Who knows I might even get two weeks practice in (Vane sailing in TT fortnight – surreal or what!)

Oh Bob, did you get the rules, seems I can have as many in a team as I want and all can trim the boat etc. But I suppose as the Americans coming over (8) have no team, we'll all share each other.

Kim

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hi Kimmo

Looking good………The caulking looks nice, but must be a chore?

I use a plane blade as a scraper………Broken glass sounds dangerous?

It`s good news about the crew numbers……….Should save your legs a bit!

Don`t need any rules myself, I`m only a spectator

Bob

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

My wife's 36R Razorbill design, now formally named Ladyshave had its maiden voyage today at the VMYG meeting in Grimsby. The wind was a bit gusty for a first outing and Ladyshave showed her pond yacht/straight line racing heritage by being pretty reluctant to change direction. Hence its back in the workshop for a longer chord rudder. It might make it technically too long to be classed as a 36R but it will be much more pleasant to sail, especially in confined spaced with hard concrete edges.

Here are a couple of pictures of the finished hull. Just for comparison with Kim's, it weights 10lb 2 oz, including the receiver and servos but excluding the battery. The original builder of many years ago certainly did a good job in constructing a very light stiff hull.

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hi Gareth,

a fine looking yacht on the water, is she rigged with the fore stay through the jib luff? The skylark design has a separate forestay running out to the end of a short bowsprit, with the jib foot attached just short of the bow.

Looking at Ladyshave, her rudder is on the stern, so maybe a deeper style would work better. On my "Cloie" (skylark) the rudder is about 5" behind the keel, and in front of the stern line.

Adjusted "cloie's" weight again today by drilling the lead ballast, now the completed hull and ballast come in at 11.4lbs. Have the rudder and deck stuff plus mast to add so will be at the 12lb mark when finished. [I can take out a bit more from the ballast if required, but not much, it already looks like a swiss cheese!]

Now I need to pick a colour for the hull – peppermint green?

Kim.

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Hi Kim,

The fore stay and the jib tack are both attached to the front of the jib boom. The jib boom is attached to a rack on the deck only about 1 cm further back. The jib luff is attached to the forestay using luff hooks. The head of the jib has a halliard which is attached to the mast about 10 cm above the point that the forestay is attached.

How about that for a list of yachting technical terms, someone is bound to point out there's a mistake somewhere.

When Elizabeth bought the hull all the fittings including the mast, booms, a set of sails (cut wrongly) and a plan, came with it.   However the yacht had never been assembled and there was no rigging. We had to add attachments to the mast and booms in various places, eg for the sail sheets, but tried to use as much as possible of the original makers parts.  Ladyshave is painted in Ford Olympic blue,  Elizabeth was going to paint it pink but could not find the right shade in Halfords.

The story behind the Razorbill hull, we are led to believe, is that it was originally built by someone who worked at what is now BAE Systems Brough, (where I also worked for about 40 years.) The unknown modeller had built the hull and then decided to build a model of a Buccaneer low level strike aircraft. I don't know when that was, but it must have been a mighty challenge as it would be a pretty difficult aircraft to base a model on, particularly with the technology of the 1960's or 70's. On its maiden flight the model Buccaneer disappeared off into the distance over the Humber, never to be seen again. In a bit if a huff, the modeller put his Razorbill hull away in the loft and it did not see the light of day for many years. Subsequently it has been passed around between various members of Goole and York MBC but never progressed until now.

Gareth

Edited By Gareth Jones on 28/04/2013 19:22:16

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Sounds like the rig is set-up almost the same way as for a standard IOM then, except you are using luff hooks.

Whilst eating porridge (not the cat) just now, thought I'd rig Cloie using jackstays and luff hooks. It would make sail changing easier and I've lots made from another project.

I have two cans of "Lady Penelope" pink, high gloss cellulose based spray paint, but no courage to apply it to anything yet. We're now thinking sunflower yellow could be nice, with a broad green waterline stripe.

Still, hull to undercoat, then start the rig.

Aye, Kim

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Bank holiday SITREP…..

The deck and hull rubbed down, deck masked up and the hull primed with yellow filler primer. The waterline set up as per the plans [LWL] having done a tank test and found her to float a bit shy of this line (still the mast, sails and fittings to add) and slightly down by stern – again the mast is well forward and should compensate. Its quite easy using the laser – except trying to keep out of the way whilst sticking on the tape!

With the water line on, the hull lower colour added, I decided on red oxide. The upper hull is a bright sunflower yellow, a nice contrast, so good I did not bother with a separate waterline.

And while all that was going on and waiting for paint to dry etc I got on with the fittings. At first I was going to buy them in, then when I looked not all were available, so I made most of them.

The only ones not made by me – the Braine quadrant; the Kicker; Mast step; and two boom ends for jib and main.

Once the varnish is dry on the hull (third coat going on soon) I'll turn her over and seal the deck. The mast and spars are cut and have been stained dark pine. All the bowsies have been made too, from perspex as the plans suggest, so this week I'll be able to step the mast and set about sail templates.

Then I've only to sort out the sheeting………………………….simple really?

Kimosubby

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Kimmo

She's really progressing now and looking really nice

One thing I've never understood…….How does the Braine gear cope with gusty weather?

As an idea, I've just dreamt up…….Why not get a compass involved somewhere in the steering equation?

Bob

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Kimmo

She's really progressing now and looking really nice

One thing I've never understood…….How does the Braine gear cope with gusty weather?

As an idea, I've just dreamt up…….Why not get a compass involved somewhere in the steering equation?

Bob

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hi Bob,

with a vane attached there is a near full dial of degress for set up, so nearly a compass. I understand what you are saying, I'm told that once set up properly the boat sails wherre you want it against the wind angle, but I agree, if that is flukey, the destination is in the lap of Neptune? Gusty wind is compensated for using stronger elastic, a bigger rubber band, which reminds me I must find a retailer stocking different sized elastic. [Make note to self – web search for elastic!]

I did discuss another idea with a helicopter flier and a hovercraft expert. Both models use gyroscope equivalent electronics to help maintain a steady course, the hovercraft direction regardless of centre line profile and the same with helicopter direction. They both thought that a gyro in a yacht could make sense in assisting keeping the yacht on course without all the rudder stick twitching. I never tried it out, but will one day.

Varnish deck today and mast and spars. Weather too good yesterday so all day on the allotment. Spuds are up, peas growing nice, and all the seeds coming through too. Beans coming on, and your favourite, the toms all looking great.

Today its wet and windy, hence time in for the boat.

Oh and the good news, the accessories for my trusty ols Singer came through, so I now have a proper hemming foot to assist my sail making, its a 3/16" so nice and narrow.

Aye, Kim

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hi Bob,

with a vane attached there is a near full dial of degress for set up, so nearly a compass. I understand what you are saying, I'm told that once set up properly the boat sails wherre you want it against the wind angle, but I agree, if that is flukey, the destination is in the lap of Neptune? Gusty wind is compensated for using stronger elastic, a bigger rubber band, which reminds me I must find a retailer stocking different sized elastic. [Make note to self – web search for elastic!]

I did discuss another idea with a helicopter flier and a hovercraft expert. Both models use gyroscope equivalent electronics to help maintain a steady course, the hovercraft direction regardless of centre line profile and the same with helicopter direction. They both thought that a gyro in a yacht could make sense in assisting keeping the yacht on course without all the rudder stick twitching. I never tried it out, but will one day.

Varnish deck today and mast and spars. Weather too good yesterday so all day on the allotment. Spuds are up, peas growing nice, and all the seeds coming through too. Beans coming on, and your favourite, the toms all looking great.

Today its wet and windy, hence time in for the boat.

Oh and the good news, the accessories for my trusty ols Singer came through, so I now have a proper hemming foot to assist my sail making, its a 3/16" so nice and narrow.

Aye, Kim

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

An excellent reply, Kimmo

I`m pleased that you understood what I was on about!

Take a look at my latest Eureka Moments……..Would appreciate your comments?

My greenhouse and garden are doing really well this year, despite the cold Spring

Bob

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

An excellent reply, Kimmo

I`m pleased that you understood what I was on about!

Take a look at my latest Eureka Moments……..Would appreciate your comments?

My greenhouse and garden are doing really well this year, despite the cold Spring

Bob

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Well Bob, nearly there!

Started the sails on Monday, lofting two sets and making the No2 set first. These are for heavy weather so hopefully will stay in the bag! Yesterday all day on the allotment, so today have finished the No1 jib and almost the main too.

Just so I can see my boat, I added coloured tape on the luff, green for No2 set.

Here's the No1 jib, I even decided that coloured batten pockets were in order for the No1 set.

The main has been started, the batten pockets get sewn on first, then the clew and tack reinforcements so that the hem/tape stitching also stiches these items. The blue marking is a special water soluble pen sold in haberdasher's shops, and comes in purple or blue. Any dampness and the colour dissapears.

I've now hemmed the main and will add the luff tape next. I've used three different feet on my sewing machine, it was a good job I purchased the accessories set from the Singer website. It would have been difficult to hem with such precision without the hem foot, and the larger presser foot is just the job for the bias tape.

The standard foot is left, next the presser foot and last the 3/8" hemming foot. This foot is not the easiest beast, but after 10 practice long hems, I got an acceptable result.

Have to sew on the luff hooks – or decide whether to use Bob's latest idea for mast rings. Let you know tomorrow.

Kimmo.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Nice sails, Kimmo

It`s a pity there are no official numbers available for the great day…..I used a symbolic Skylark on mine…..

I must have lots of pix of my model somewhere

Bob

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Just finished the main for No1 set.

Decided to go for jackstay and luff hooks. If I get them on tomorrow I should be able to rig the beating sheets and do a first sail and check the mast position for weather helm. Also get some pictures of her completed.

I'm told this style of sailing requires weather helm so I've allowed for three movements forward to achieve it hopefully.

Oh, and to do that I'll need to make a rudder stop – the rudder is centred and not used on the beat so a ol' sailor said?

Kim

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hi Kimmo

Just simple question……

Why do you say beating sheets as opposed to just sheets?

Bob

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Ah Bob, now we get technical.

On the braine or vane boats there are two sets of sheets, beating and running, and each are used according to your direction of travel (so I'm reliably informed). If you look at the Skylark plans you will see that on the main boom it has three under the boom attachments. From the mast outward the first is the kicker, the next the running sheet anchor and the outer the beating sheet anchor.

I'll post more detail once I've set the sails up and had a first trip out with my "expert".

For your information, there are 24 boats at Gosport and 28 at Llandudno, so plenty of action. Some UK emtrants have been requested to join the USA team for the events, to balance up numbers.

Aye, Kim

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thanks Kimmo

So you are changing sails during the race?

I hope not

Bob

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Right ho, lets give some more information.

First, sail changing during a "race" called a board (three legs, two beats and a run) is permitted, as the run can be made by attaching a spinnaker (and removing the jib). You cannot change a sail in the part being sailed, but the team can make adjustments at the turn or simply turn the boat to the next required course. Each part of the board is sailed  separately. So in bewteen the boats are set up for the next part. You have to walk back to the start anyway, and there can be up to three pairs on the water at the same time, hopefully separated enough so that they don't mingle!!

The rudder travel is controlled by a pin rack (if fitted) this can limit or stop the throw on the tiller. The tiller/rudder is returned to it's center position by an elastic band the tension of which can be varied to meet wind conditions and required response.

In this image the pin rack is behind the Braine quadrant and in front of the main beating hawse. A very light elastic is being used, its white and under the Braine quadrant. The beating sheet is in use, and it appears that with only one hook each side on the quadrant, that the jib and main running sheets are joined.

Now the sheets and how they're set up.

This picture shows it very well, and I've introduced coloured arrows to show the two sheeting sets. I'll use this image to set up my boat, even though this is an A class Braine boat.

The large red arrow at stern indicates a much stronger elastic set up to hold the rudder to the center position. The large blue arrows (and small red arrow foreward) show the beating hawses and the beating sheets with the main beating sheet hooked onto the boom out of the way.

The yellow arrows show the running sheets which are a bit more complex in that they cross over and both the jib and main sail sheets, which can combine to a single hook, are, in the  arrangement above separate and hooked onto the Braine quadrant at differing points. This will be because of two factors. The first, it is not unusual for a yacht to have slightly different course when the sheets are set the same when sailing to port or starboard. The second, it may be that the desired course is to sail different angles on the apparent wind to make the finish easier, say first course a run of 40' and the second to be 55'.

You can also see that the running sheets rove through a pulley either side of the center line, and not from a hawse. They are length adjusted with bowsies, as are the beating sheets. The running sheets are in pairs and the beating sheets is a single sheet, the traveller crosses the hawse when goig onto the opposite tack.

Because the running sheets are longer, during the beat the beating sheets are just hooked up on the hawse runner. Clever teams can change the beat sheet to another hook point on the turn, which will change the course sailed slightly. The rudder/tiller when beating will be held at center by the elastic. If helm is required then the pinrack can be used to introduce a bias to one side, BUT it is essential that the yacht has some weather helm – that is, when hard pressed it will want to come up into the wind, so taking pressure off the sails. It is this area I have to learn whether any control to the Braine gear is made to counter this effect. When sailing in a race it's always important to make as much to windward as possible.

If you are sailing with radio gear then ignore all the above. A joined sheet to jib and main to a servo winch or arm, and the rudder (which requires deepening for bite) controlled by another servo. You have using the radio, the means to alter the sail positions, something which cannot be done with free sailing.

Any clearer Bob?

Kim

Edited By Kimosubby Shipyards on 16/05/2013 11:27:28

Edited By Kimosubby Shipyards on 16/05/2013 11:31:10

Edited By Kimosubby Shipyards on 16/05/2013 11:35:05

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

All very complicated and highly technical, Kimmo

You seem to be up to date with the sequence of events and know the ropes!

What about the vane,then?

Bob

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hi Bob,

I'm not vaning, just braining! But there will be vane boats there too.

KIm

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Well Gareth, Bob and all, we "yottie types" as Colin calls us had better keep this thread going!

At last, took Cloie to the water for some bank side shots. This water we use is surrounded by trees, some quite low, it also has an Island and in places not very deep, hence I did not attempt a first sail – but here she is in her number 1's.

This week I'll try her on the big lake here in Ramsey's Mooragh Park, but I'll need at least two chasers to try and keep her off the concrete!

And those sails are all my own work! Just need to sort out the sheeting and she's finished.

Kim (a closet yottie)?

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Nice model, Kimmo

Don`t forget a couple of padded sticks/hooks for bank handling

Looking forward to the maiden sail

How about a temperary safety line?

Bob……..Also a Yottie

[Kimosubby ShipyardsParticipant @kimosubbyshipyards]

Hi Bob, thank you,

you must have your PC on all the time.

I've got my padded pole, the regulation maximum 5 foot! And yes, I have considered a safety line, thought I'd use the first section of a beach rod so the line runs free, and at 25lb should haul her back, though if I attach to the bow I might turn her round – interesting thought – I'll let you know – yachting by wire [a new sport for you Colin]!

Yottie Kim

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