Thor

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Another interesting project Paul. I shall be watching!

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Thank you Amy I shall make it as interesting as possible.

In fact to start the general interest going I would like everybody's opinion on the wording of the following extract from the MPBA Team Tug Towing rule 1:

Boats used should be models of ships designed and built for the purpose of towing; deep sea, estuary, harbour and river tugs are all acceptable.

To my mind the word 'Should' when used in this context is ambiguous and might mean 'must be' but it could also mean 'suggested that'

I have asked the MPBA for clarification but meanwhile I would like to hear the readers comments.

Paul

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Hi Paul.

My take would be- "It is not compulsary, but you shall be heavily frowned upon if you don't, so you had jolly well better!" lol.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

The words critically missing from the rules are "scale" and/or "exact", but Thor would certainly stir up a debate about the "spirit of the rules" were one to appear for competition. That is, of course, if it were deemed to have an unfair advantage over more conventional towing models.

DM

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I think that Thor meets the requirements regardless of the interpretation as Thor has been specifically designed and built for the purpose of towing, admittedly it only 3ft long, but a tug never the less.

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi Paul, Well maybe the answer is to complete the design and the get a number of boaters to build Thor and as many as possible enter competition , and then win it .I would say that's the way to show "the spirit of the rules". Some times the boat has to be pushed out in design for it be the norm Every radio controlled sport I and my grand children participated in manufacturers changed the models on a regular basis so why not boats Michael

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul

Thor will be ok for towing comps, although I`ve never heard of a towing comp, but for the steering comps, anyone without a pair of thrusters will feel disadvantaged

I once mentioned this at a club contest and they seem to have some sort of handicap system in operation?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

As previously stated I have asked MPBA for clarification and I don't really want to promote Thor as a competition tug without receiving the clarification.

To those of you who know me this might sound as though I have gone soft.

Well if I were designing and building Thor for my own pleasure then I wouldn't care what anyone said and would happily argue the niceties of the rules all day long but things are slightly different as I intend to donate the plans to charity, hence the need for clarification or some other kind of guidance that potential builders could refer to if they wish to compete.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I was going to comment on this aspect (illegitimacy) but it seems that it is very complicated and will ultimately be up to the local club running such an event or the adjudicator or……or….or….

if I was running a towing comp it would simply be a) strict scale (perhaps sectioned into size depending on the entry) and b) "others"

but I am not, and am too reasonable in any case.

IF you were to make it look like it was based on an existing boat then all parties might be satisfied….

Ashley sorry is that too radical??

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Ashley

My radical days are behind me (almost) I will wait for the MPBA to answer.

I simply wondered what the readers thought about the meaning of the rule.

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear All

I have taken a second look at the pulling power calculations and have decided that for a moderate increase in overall size (length, width, depth & mass) I can achieve a significant increase in pulling power and, oddly enough steering control.

So whilst the original concept remains unchanged the actual boat has increased in size.

The foamboard prototype has completed its task and has been disassembled and construction of the sailing prototype has begun. To maintain strength and rigidity Thor has an internal box framework of 7mm birch ply with reinforced corners / joints.

Paul

 

 

The size?…….4ft long, 1ft beam, 5in draft, twin 4in x 5 blade propellers, 4 independently powered thrusters …….how's that for radical Ashley

Edited By Paul T on 12/03/2014 19:58:10

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Well Paul how many power units will it need to drive it ,don.t think it will need much ballast to weigh it down .

Michael

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Nice chunky model size, but too wide for our steering course,

How can we get round that problem?

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Paul. Wow. I would like to see that in action. Could pull a battleship with it !!!

Bob. Redesign the steering course….

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Good idea Ashley

Make the gates wider…..Then the little boats will have an easy time of it?

I've never got involved with the steering comp and can't comment on the unfairness of it all!

I would suggest that all competitors, use the same boat?

Bob

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Some years ago we organised a steering competition at our club. After some debate among the committee we decided everyone would use the same boat, one of the clubs 'have a go boats'. Quite a few people entered but there was lots of whinging about how difficult it was to control the club boat and lots of people wanted to be able to use their own.

The following year we revised the rules and said people could use their own boat but it must be at least 24 inches long, with a fixed propeller and steered by its rudders i.e. no steerable kort nozzles, differentially powered propellers, bowthrusters, azipods or similar devices) There was lots of whinging again with prople complaining 'A' s boat doesnt meet the rules or you cant have a springer tug with a tom pudding fixed on the front, even if its 30 inches long overall. Hardly anyone entered the competition that year.

We haven't bothered since.

Gareth

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Rules and committees, there was me thinking this was supposed to be a fun hobby !

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

My idea of a steering comp is….there is a course (obviously with rules and or instructions as to what are supposed to do) and then you put a boat of your choice (ie, one of your own boats) in the oggie and drive around the course?

We should have a steering course for D-Day…chuck some concrete blocks in, pretend they are storm damaged caissons, and drive round them !

Ashley

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

It would probably end up more like dodgem cars boats given the number of near misses we usually have !

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Ashley you are positively nutsMichael

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

The problem of designing a steering course to suit most boats of varying dimensions was studied and largely solved back in the 1970s. Alas the solution appears to have been forgotten since. I recall writing an article for Model Boats about it at the time.

One of the principles was to ensure that the various gates were wide enough for all models but that this was not apparent from the angle from which they were viewed. Competitors could study the course to their heart's content from all angles before starting their run but they would then have to navigate from one or more fixed positions which meant that it was a test of nerves and skill to position the boat correctly.

It worked pretty well.

Colin

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Mike, you are so right. This is what makes me so innovative.

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul

Had a look at today's steering comp at Etherow

All the boats are 36" long x 6" min width and resemble canal barges in shape

Bow thrusters are not allowed

They use very large rudders and they have a vertical strip, which is part of the rudder and is used to show the Skipper, which way the rudder is acting, especially when running in reverse

The course looks about 9" wide between walls

Reverse steering looks very difficult

They also avoid high superstructure to escape the wind effect

Hope this info helps you with your latest project

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Captain Bob

Thanks for the information, it seems that different clubs have all sorts of rules and, as yet, I haven't found a single definitive set.

You wouldn't believe the amount of emails I have had about this model……Tugs are a really popular subject.

Paul

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi Paul as I am new to this hobby I was nervous about suggesting a hull type I have owned .That is a cathedral hull which was extremely agile but equally stable going astern as forward. My Birchwood Continental would turn in almost its own length yet would maintain a very good straight line I wish I could draw on this confounded machine to show what I mean ,alas no . Michael

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