Thor

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Posted by ashley needham on 02/10/2014 19:17:11:

AmyJ. Please elucidate on your enigmatic post. Perhaps our jargon does not translate into antipodean that well.

Paul certainly does not have designers block. i suspect he has a dose of input overload ! This is normally cured by a reality price check,as Gareth has found out….

Ashley

Hi Ashley

Elucidate? Are you asking me out on an elucive date? If so I might give you a vauge reply, some day (possibly).

Translation:

O my gosh. What the…? You've got to be joking….. Why?

Elucidation:

Why would you want or need a model with a 170 kg static thrust? If you want to pull the stern out of some one's boat, the car would do it better and cheaper.

What 12 ton vessel is going to be towed around the model boat pond, and for what purpose? BTW 50 kg thrust will pull and 12ton boat happily, if not windy or tide running ( A 2hp outboard gives about 50 kg and will move our 40' launch along, all be it slowly. 3 such out boards will shift a 50' yacht against a reasonable wind and tide)

If one had to have such a model, I say, (with the supreme arrogance of antipodean youth) that it could be achieved much more cheaply and simply than what is being proposed here! (hence my challenge of a virtual build – I have no use for such a boat!) I realise I should have put my challenge on this thread, not the vintage cruiser one , whoops.

Having said all that , I'm enjoying this thread, the inventiveness and banter etc.

Any how that's my opinion, You are all most welcome to tell me I'm full of it!

Aj

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

AmyJ. thanks for that. That was a particularly FEISTY answer. I would just say "lawnmower" in reply.

Why build a model with 1,000,000 Kg static thrust….why not eh ! Those plastic pumps are too good to waste on plumbing alone. I can see that. I can see seeing one of those and thinking "I have to have one of these and use it". Paul thinks bigger, He sees these little gems and thinks " I have to have FOUR of these and create a truly mind bending pulling machine" Not unlike (fill in the blank) the machine being developed right now.

The achievable simply needs to be realised in wood an plastic as a challenge. I go for realisng the UNachievale, myself.

Paul. Your reply please to this question…why?

Ashley

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Ummm…. Sorry 'bout all that, Too much coffee, (or not enough wine) I'm afraid!

Weed eater

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

AmyJ. No need to apologise. Nothing like a good rant now and then.. All views and comments welcome here.

Good point raised. Paul will answer soon.

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Good point raised. Paul will answer soon.

Ashley, Amy and Kevin

Why am a building such a powerful boat?

Good question.

As some of you know the inspiration came from watching model tugs trying to push a narrow boat at Ellesmere Port and thinking about designing something small and powerful enough to do this.

Thors design has gone through a few incarnations since the original concept until it reached the point where it became a challenge to produce as much power and manoeuvrability as possible from a 4ft hull.

The fun is in cramming all of the kit into a confined space and creating new ways of using existing equipment……..and of course the one or two sailings where you get the chance to use the boat to its full potential.

So to answer the question of why build such a boat…………..because I wanted to prove it could be done.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Paul

Apologies for the apparent silence from my side again, we've had a few days away in the campervan again and couldn't find a WiFi source

I could see your design dilemma coming up……Thor is just too much for you and totally OTT!….and Jane has every right to shake her head

The weight is health injurious for starters and is just too much trouble using a crane etc

Two motors and four nozzles etc are making a model build into a tiresome stressful job of work?

The Tug of War challenge was good fun at the time, and my offer to the challenge, was really a token gesture

Can I suggest you abandon either the motors or the water jet idea and keep it simple?

We can still have a friendly Tug of War at Haydock just as a bit of fun?

All the best, my mate…..Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Bob

I might have given the wrong impression about the build.

Thor isn't becoming tiresome, in fact its just becoming interesting as I'm now facing some real design and construction challenges. I was always going to have a problem with launching and recovery and so would at some point needed to design a machine to do this. (Ashleys idea of fitting wheels on the hull isn't as daft as it sounds)

The design dilemma was whether or not to fit the extra two forward facing motors and thrust tubes but these have now been fitted so the dilemma is over.

I don't think that the tug of war could have taken place as there is bound to be some sort of health and safety reason to prevent it.

Paul

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi Paul Well still not ready for returning to the workshop but retaining interest in Thor project.

You may well be right about the Health and Safety Police but perhaps you can give a display of the pulling power of the Mighty Thor. Line them and pull the lot about the pond ,as many as the pond will accommodate.

Ellesmere Port will be where Thor will prove its power and justify its build so wait and see ,I for one will be prepared to make the first pull and if the Enchanted Hammer fails then The Mighty Thor will not.

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

Posted by Paul T on 04/10/2014 14:22:34:

Good point raised. Paul will answer soon.

Ashley, Amy and Kevin

Why am a building such a powerful boat?

Good question.

As some of you know the inspiration came from watching model tugs trying to push a narrow boat at Ellesmere Port and thinking about designing something small and powerful enough to do this.

Thors design has gone through a few incarnations since the original concept until it reached the point where it became a challenge to produce as much power and manoeuvrability as possible from a 4ft hull.

The fun is in cramming all of the kit into a confined space and creating new ways of using existing equipment……..and of course the one or two sailings where you get the chance to use the boat to its full potential.

So to answer the question of why build such a boat…………..because I wanted to prove it could be done.

Paul

Thanks Paul

Entirely reasonable explanation. I look forward to the reactions when you start to push a narrow boat full of tourists around! I shall continue to watch your build with enthusiasm

Amy jane

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear Kevin

I can see why Bob uses this stuff as talc, the sanded powder from P38 filler gets everywhere and there is a huge pile under the outdoor work bench………..why is there always more powder after sanding than filler when its mixed? the stuff just expands exponentially as it leaves the sander.

Thor looks very sad and 'snow bound' with all of the filler dust piled up on its decks

Paul

[Mark Jarvis 2Participant @markjarvis2]

Hi Paul

Lets see the latest incarnation of Thor!! dust or not. Is the hull complete? did you get the nozzles to work together?

Mark

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Mark

The nozzles were working until one of the plastic sprockets failed, I was always dubious about using plastic but I wanted to keep the design as basic as possible. Just ordered 5 bicycle 18tooth sprockets being steel they wont fail under pressure and I will be able to get a more robust connection between the sprockets and copper outlet pipes.

Also taken the opportunity to upgrade the chain to a steel/nylon version and increase the strength of the chain drive motor.

The forward facing propellers have been test fitted within their respective thrust tubes and rotate freely so I can complete the filling work around the bow.

I will post some photos when the build is decent enough to view.

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Here are the promised photos of the bow thruster tubes.

These tubes will contain a pair of 4in forward facing propellers driven by a pair of Graupner 600s, the props act like turbines and compress the water forcing it out through the narrower exits.

Its probably not to everyone's taste and the tubes do make the boat look odd but the calculations show quite a large amount of thrust will be achieved from this arrangement.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I like the blending in of the nozzles, Paul they look very nice

Why forward facing though?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Bob

The boat already has two traditional rear facing props at the stern and the movable jets on the bottom of the hull which mean the only spare space is on the bow.

Essentially they are mirror versions of a traditional propeller setup with the blades working like airscrews and dragging the boat along.

Paul

[Mark Jarvis 2Participant @markjarvis2]

Hi Paul

This really is getting interesting, the pumps you have already fitted, combined with the Forward and rear facing props. what is your expected amp draw at full power, your adapted bilge pubs could be quite expensive on the batteries.

Your own comment as to available space now becoming a premium, is it possible that a section of hull will be added to accommodate there bulk????

Mark

[CookieOldParticipant @cookieold]

Paul , Ho My God , This looks like a real BEAST ( Bob good job the tug of war is off ) PS Paul i did mention beefing up your chain drive chain in a early post but got told off , HA HA .

Best Regards Dave

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

WOW. Thats all I can say. Fabbydozo. This is more like it !! Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Bob

Thank you for the compliment on my blending abilities but if you look really close there are quite a few bumps and craters that still need resolving.

Hi Mark

The pumps each draw 4amps so there is a potential for a 16A(+) load from the pumps. I am getting very tight for space but I don't plan to add any hull extensions or bulges, the space problem is most acute for the 32ah battery which should be mounted as low as possible but is slowly being pushed higher in the hull so I am running into a position where I start worrying about being top heavy and the possibility of capsize.

Hi Dave

I stand corrected on the chain / sprocket drive, in my defence I was trying to keep the design/construction simple but with the addition of steel sprockets I am now having to braze some connections (which is a method some builders may not be familiar with)

Hi Ashley

As I was working out the benefits of the forward facing props I began to think that this would be right up your street.

Paul

[Mark Jarvis 2Participant @markjarvis2]

Whats happening!!!!! two months and so last year, you cant stop to do the gents cruiser, need Thor update

Mark

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Mark

I have been playing around with the drive system for the pump outlets (sorry about the quality of the photos)

The chain is a metal / polymer combination used in the food manufacturing industry, the sprockets are the bottom pulleys from derailleur gears that have been welded onto the copper outlet tube.

The geared motor that operates the chain is to be fitted beneath the two overhead sections of copper tube.

The geared drive motor fits under the copper tube in the lower left hand side of this image, the motor is actually fitted upside down to allow the drive sprocket to properly engage with the chain. Its a bit long winded but it saves making another hole in the hull.

Thor has been relegated to the storage shed for the winter season.

Paul

ps the sharp eyed will have spotted the chocolate block connector (the nemesis of all model boaters) but before you jump up and down and start throwing brickbats……the wire ends have been crimped and spot soldered into place.

Edited By Paul T on 01/01/2015 17:23:29

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Never had an issue with choc block connectors

Getting very serious now thats all I can say..

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Ash

I don't have a problem with chock blocks but some people do…….and they are correct in what they say about chock blocks making suspect connections……. so its better to do the job properly.

Paul

[Mark Jarvis 2Participant @markjarvis2]

Hi Paul, I know you have had health issues but, what happened to Thor???

Mark

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Mark

Thor appeared at Haydock alongside my other designs. With its very large motors and four pump driven jet drives it was a formidable beast but I got carried away and wanted to fit two forward facing props to increase the pulling power.

These thrust tubes were added to the bow to enclose the props, the tubes were feathered into the hull but a section of each tube remained open at the rear to compress and funnel the water down each side of the boat.

Thor is now mothballed in my shed and will probably be stripped down for parts.

Paul

[Author]

Posts