Thor

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Sir Bob de Denton

I have something of a dilemma with your challenge as I have a vested interest in both designs, which one should win? The mighty 4 engine and thruster powered Thor or the 5ft launch?

In the real world the tug would win hands down but Bob being Bob will no doubt put something in that are bigger and dafter than 4 850s and maintain that he will win the day (even though as I designed both boats I know that he doesn't stand a chance)

So Sir Bob you may honourably withdraw from your challenge in the knowledge that I will undoubtedly win.

Sir Paul

Isn't Denton where Jack Frost comes from?

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

What?…..Withdraw?…..Not on your Nellie!

The choice of motors is suddenly……..very important……Hmmmmmmm?

We will be getting plenty of Jack Frost shortly

Sir Bob de Denton

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ahhhh (picks self up from swooning at such gallantry paid by Bob de Denton) I will send you my favour in a jiffy bag for seeing off this braggart upstart!

Paul. A dilemma indeed !!! ho ho… bet you didnt see THAT coming…

Ashley ( softie southern damsel brushing dust off gauntlet)

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Ashley

Yes Bobs gallantry has rather thrown a spanner in the works, I was quite looking forward to pulling one of your boats all over the pool but now I have the potential problem of having the general public witnessing one of my designs ripping the stern out of another………….I'm sure that Brunel didn't have these worries.

Paul

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi Paul .Back from sudden bereavement though not working I must stand our ground . If Sir Bob is about to build with Monster motors then I must bring The Enchanted Hammer with its simple 4 motor s to protect your honour .If it looked a problem for Thor then I,d be obliged to to intervene ,but maybe not just fall about laughing .

Sorry Bob us upstarts must ship together.

Ashley the 50 lbs in the hull makes Thor weighty in the hull ,oh and still 10 to 15 more lbs to get my model to sit right.

No speed but plenty of power

Is this becoming a serious challenge ?????Michael

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Paul,

I might be tempted to take up your tug of war challenge at Haydock Park next year. I will mull over a possible design and let you know in a few weeks.

Gareth

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Now then Gareth ,Haydock Park will never be the same with all the power will their pond be able to cope .

Much doubt .

A thought if Ashleys friend Trevor came with his huge battle ship ,well for the folks north of Watford Gap there may be some competition ? Michael

[CookieOldParticipant @cookieold]

This is Fantastic , Hope you have done the maths Paul , It,s a tall order up with Bobs 4 850,s ,

Dave

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

This could well be the tug`o`war of the century.

Trevors battleship unfortunately only has one geared 850 driving its 4 inch prop, so is not short of power per se, but a bit down on Bobs FOUR 850`s.

I have nothing (currently) that could match this although a pair of 850`s would drop in the mighty FANTOME, and i keep on promising this at the pond.

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Michael

Its nice to see you back on the forum especially given your current circumstances let me know when you are ready to get back into the workshop and I will send you the design updates.(but only after I have drawn and tested them)

Hi Gareth

A boat developed by a keen mind such as yours would be challenge and I look forward to seeing the draft designs.

Hi Dave

Oh yes I have got the calculations right as I have used the normal practice of adding a 10% peace of mind margin to my results so everything on Thor is over engineered, in fact its so over engineered that the addition of two forward facing motors is easily absorbed by the frame/hull without any extra strengthening. If I can realise the full potential of motors and thrusters the calcs predict a bollard pull of 150 > 170 kg and an overall towing capability of 12 > 15 metric tonnes. The worry with a tug of war with Bobs boat is that the Vintage Cruiser isn't designed for towing and there is a very real possibility of pulling its stern off.

Hi Ashley

Even if you squeezed 6 850s into the Fantome I doubt that you could achieve the 70lb of hull mass that will be required to compete against Thor.

Paul

[CookieOldParticipant @cookieold]

Come on Bob , As a ex live steam engineer i am sure you will pull this one off , Dave

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Bob..no more room for another couple of 850`s ??? OR gear them down and max out on the prop size.

Ashley

[Amy jane SeptemberParticipant @amyjaneseptember49770]

??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

I thought I might as well break the bad news sooner rather than later. Regretfully I will not be challenging Paul Thomason's Thor to a tug of war at next years Haydock Park show.

My plan, in so far as I took it, was to build a 'double sized' Springer hull (36 inches x 16), powered by a pair of 5 inch kort nozzles with 5 bladed propellers driven by a pair of large brushless motors. The superstructure would be a simplified version of something like this **LINK**

However after pricing up the likely cost of all the drive train, which came to somewhere in excess of £500 I decided it was too much to spend on a simplified project, interesting though it would have been. The tug illustrated in the link above looks an attractive model to build and I have added it to my list of potential projects. If I am going to spend that sort of money on a project, I would rather take my time and build an accurate scale model rather than a quick semiscale one just to meet the timescale for a one off event. I also have several other projects on the go, return to work for another 6 month contract starting tomorrow and we are planning on visiting our daughter in the USA early next year so finding the time to do it would be problematic.

Overall therefore I have reluctantly decided to drop the idea of challenging Paul. However if anyone wants to adapt my idea they are welcome to have a go and I will come along next year and cheer them on.

Gareth

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Gareth

Don't give up so easily.

Your boat doesn't necessarily need all of the expensive equipment as when you get down to basics all that is required is mass and power.

To take up your springer idea………increase the hull to 4ft and use a pair of second hand Kawasaki starter motors for motive power, instead of expensive kortz nozzles use 2 short pieces of 4in plastic drain pipe. The larger hull will easily accommodate a small car battery which will provide plenty of power and ballast.

The most expensive things will be the props.

So for very little outlay you will have a very powerful tug.

Meanwhile Thor has undergone more radical surgery to add the new thrust tubes under the waterline on either side of the bow.

Paul

 

Edited By Paul T on 28/09/2014 18:35:03

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear Reader (Kevin)

I am sat looking at Thor which is now plonked like some oversized brooding hen on our lounge floor.

The new forward facing thrust tubes take some getting used to and I still cant make up my mind whether the extra power is worth the ugly duckling features, I realise that they will be hidden (to some extent) under the waterline but right now they just look ……..different.

I cant look Jane in the eye as she just grins, raises her eyebrows and sadly shakes her head, somehow I get the impression that I might have gone, ever so slightly, to far.

Thor is also getting very heavy and becoming difficult to lift so I might end up borrowing one of Ashleys ideas and fit some wheels to it. (oh no)

Even from here I can hear Bob shouting 'where are the photos' ……………not a chance or at least not until I have convinced myself that this is a good idea.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 02/10/2014 16:55:02

[Diede van AbsParticipant @diedevanabs87670]

Paul,

Posting photos is ALWAYS a good idea.

If not for any feedback, then at least to give us a good laugh

No, seriously – it looks as if you are in a state of "designers block". Share your thoughts and doubts, and maybe – just maybe – some of us will come up with an idea that helps you move on.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Diede

I couldn't inflict any of these photos onto the unsuspecting public as they might doubt my claim to elitism or worse still they might think that I don't know what I am doing.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

AmyJ. Please elucidate on your enigmatic post. Perhaps our jargon does not translate into antipodean that well.

Paul certainly does not have designers block. i suspect he has a dose of input overload ! This is normally cured by a reality price check,as Gareth has found out….

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Ashley

No designers block, no input overload and I don't worry about price checks (I'm not rich…I just don't worry)

I did recently suffer from a small irritation but a healthy dose of anti bull–it spray seems to have cleared it.

Paul

[Diede van AbsParticipant @diedevanabs87670]

Posted by Paul T on 02/10/2014 18:05:39:

(…)my claim to elitism or worse still they might think that I don't know what I am doing.

WHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Uh… I mean…. Don't worry too much about that, Paul… We all don't know what we (and you) are doing, but we quite successfully hide that under a liberal coat of self-confidence

Edited By Diede van Abs on 03/10/2014 14:16:07

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dear Kevin

I have bitten the bullet and decided to keep the forward facing thrust tubes so I have been out in the fresh air applying liberal amounts of Bobs talc to hide all of the imperfections (just bought a 600g tub) so there is a lot of sanding to do later.

Photos……maybe after the dust has settled.

Hi Diede

I never know what I am doing, I just make it up as I go along (10% inspiration 90% bullplop)

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 03/10/2014 15:33:30

[Diede van AbsParticipant @diedevanabs87670]

Now there Paul, that sounds better…

Use a shop-vac, that saves a lot of dust to settle – getting us the photos sooner 😀

Looking forward to progression again!

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Diede

Progression for me is one step forward and five steps back, I am to indecisive and what I really need is Bob doing the build (then there is no messing about)

Paul

[Diede van AbsParticipant @diedevanabs87670]

Paul, just stick to the plan and you'll be fine.

Or better yet – tell the wife what you intend to do and have HER keep you on track! Works for me…

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