Finishing a veneered surface

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

I am currently building the Billings Slo-mo-shun which has a veneered deck and sides aft of the sponsons.  As recommended by several builders, I completed the underside of the boat before planking most of the deck. I will epoxy resin the inside and outside of the underside of the boat to make it water tight.  I will also epoxy the the inside of the planked sides aft of the sponsons.  The underside of the deck planking will not be epoxied because it won’t be accessible. The veneer is then glued down onto the planked deck and sides after sanding smooth.  I plan to use sanding sealer and fine sandpaper to get a smooth finish on the veneer.  What then??  Should I epoxy the surface of the veneer or just varnish it or do both?   I would like a nice finish but the boat must be waterproof.   Advice on this would be much appreciated.

Jeremy

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

Epoxy resin or varnish or both?

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Varnish, Yacht, loads of coats well rubbed down between so that bystanders are blinded by the sun shining off it in the morning.

 

Ashley

[Peter Morris 5Participant @petermorris5]

I don’t consider that I’m any sort of expert, but have just finished a Dumas Chris Craft Cobra and, before that a Hobbies’ Riviera.  Both boats have veneered decks.  On the Riviera I used many coats of Halfords spray clear finish and on the Cobra, in keeping with the general hull construction, I used glass fibre cloth with epoxy resin, followed by a few coats of clear finish.  To my mind the latter gives a much deeper gloss but the main advantage, it seems to me, is the durability which is obtained by creating a fibre glass covering.  I’ve added  a photo to my Cobra album which shows the deck after the application of the glass fibre cloth and before the subsequent coating of resin and varnish. 

 

Peter

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Peter

 

I would use International Yacht varnish and wet & dry with 2600 grade between coats, the only reason behind this is that wooden boats need to stretch and twist and varnish will allow the hull to do this where epoxy would hold the hull in a form of straight jacket.

 

But as long term members will know I have very traditional views on wooden construction and finishing methods.

 

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Paul, Nice to see you posting again! And you are the very man to lay the law down on shiny wooden decks.

 

50 coats sufficient??

 

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Good Morning Ashley

 

50 coats????………I imagine that you could get away with such a slapdash finish if you were in a rush to complete the model but you would always know that it ‘just not right’ a bit like touching up a scratch on your car with a 4 inch brush full of dulux gloss paint.

 

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I sit corrected, i knew i had it wrong.

 

You do get good coverage with a 4 inch brush though!

 

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I once witnessed a ‘craftsman’ applying varnish to the deck of a 25ft yacht with a yard brush.

It was a lovely boat before he got his hands on it.

 

And they say that worse things happen at sea.

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

I would appreciate advice on the sequence of operations involved in finishing the veneered surface of my Slo-mo-shun.  I was thinking of going at it like this:

 

1.   Sanding sealer and sanding to achieve a smooth surface.

2.   Apply Colron red mahogany wood dye to enhance the colour and bring it close to that of the original boat.  Ronseal suggest applying the dye to the bare wood surface.  Some forums say that sanding sealer must be used before applying the dye.  Which is right?

3.   Apply several coats of yacht varnish (sanding in between with very fine wet & dry) and then apply the red stripe – or should it be the other way round, red stripe first?  I will be using a Halfords spray (Nissan Flame Red) for this.

4.  Apply the transfers prior to the final coat of varnish.

 

The transfers supplied by Billings look to be of the water slide type but no instructions for their use are included (The transfers for their Nordkap model were of the peel-off type which were very easy to use).  Any advice on the transfers would be appreciated.

 

All forum questions to this web site are replied to with very helpful advice, much better than on some other sites I have used.  Thank you to all!

 

Jeremy

 

 

 

 

[Peter Morris 5Participant @petermorris5]

Hi Jeremy

 

I don’t know the answer regarding whether to stain before or after sanding seal but my suggestion would be to do a number of  test pieces with the veneer.  This applies particularly in deciding how many coats of stain are needed to get to the colour required and to test the colour with a coat of varnish on top – it does change on varnishing.

 

The boat”s looking great by the way!

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

If you seal the surface first then the dye won’t penetrate! So you need to sand to a smooth finish, then apply the dye with a rag until you get the colour you want, bearing in mind thet the coats of varnish will darken the shade anyway. Sanding sealer is usually used to prepare a surface for a paint finish. If you are varnishing then thinned down varnish should be used to seal the surface. That way the surface treatment is homogenous and you will get a better result which is less likely to peel.

 

Colin

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

Thanks for the advice.  I will certainly do some test pieces to see how the colour develops.

 

I am still not sure at what point to add the red flashes.  Should the red Halfords spray be applied before or after the yacht varnish or somewhere between the coats of varnish.  In either case, should I also use the Halfords primer before the red finish?   Are there paint compatability issues which determine the sequence of coats?

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I don’t think that spraying Halfords paints onto an existing  varnished surface is a good idea. The solvent could affect the varnish and probably will. If you are varnishing from bare wood then you should use an enamel type paint for the flashes. However, if you add it between varnish coats then you run the risk of it being marked when you rub down the varnish! Also, the varnish coats on top of the paint will darken the shade.

 

I am not an expert myself but in your situation I woulld get the varnish finish the way you want it, then add the flashes in enamel and finish off with a final coat of varnish that won’t need rubbing down.

 

Others may have better advice, but you can of course check it out using test pieces before you commit yourself as you say.

 

Unless you have very good reason to believe otherwise it is always best to confine yourself to products from one manufacturer which are designed to work together.

 

Colin

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

Thanks Colin

 

I will go with Humbrol enamel for the flashes on top of the final coat of yacht varnish.

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

Mahogany red stain followed by three coats of Yacht varnish so far (both products from Ronseal).  What next?

1.  There are several waterslide transfers to be applied to the mahogany surfaces.  Should I sand again before applying the transfers or should they be applied to the gloss surface?  When applied, should they be overlayed with yacht varnish or do I need a different clear varnish?

2.  I will be using Humbrol enamel for the red flashes on the deck.  Should this be overlayed with yacht varnish or will this dull the colour?

Advice on these points would be much appreciated.

Happy New Year to all.

Regards

Jeremy

 

 

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Jeremy. Given that the transfers will need varnishing to keep the water off, then more of your existing varnish would be the thing to use. I think the transfers will stick quite comfortably to the finished surface (high gloss). I have not had a problem with transfers on glossy surfaces before.

 

To varnish over the red stripe or not….it shouldnt make a lot of difference to the colour but will alter the look of it …I would imagine it will be a bit “harder” sitting on the top; the edges will be crisp and sharp on top of the wood, and if it was varnished the edges will be less hard, as the varnish cover will round off the corners (sorry…will have to use your imagination here). I should imagine that in sunlight the stripe will be more visible in the first instance as it will show up for being on top of the surface.

 

Could always add more coats and rub them down so that the surface is actually level and the stripe is incorporated into the surface?

 

Ashley    (not known for spending hours rubbing down paint)

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

Ashley – Thanks for your clear advice.  I will do as you suggest and decide on whether to varnish over the red stripes when I see how they look.

Jeremy

[JeremyParticipant @jeremy15845]

I am terrified of getting the next step wrong!

 

Hull varnished with Ronseal yacht varnish, Red stripes applied using Humbrol enamel.  Water slide transfers applied and will now be left for 24 hours to dry completely.  I now need to fix the transfers but with a method that will not destroy them.  Unfortunately, with only one set of transfers, I only have one shot at getting it right.

 

Can I safely varnish over the transfers (and the red stripes) with a final coat of yacht varnish applied with a brush? or

 

Should I fix the transfers using Humbrol gloss acrylic varnish which I have in a spray can (and then apply a final coat of yacht varnish or not)?

 

I already used the Humbrol acrylic to fix the transfers on the tail fin but the colour on the fin was applied with a Humbrol acylic spray.

 

Advice would be appreciated!!  Photo of hull below:

 

 

 Jeremy

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I would give the transfers more than 24 hours to dry and the red enamel two or three days but then it should be safe enough to use the Ronseal yacht varnish. Don’t use the Humbrol acrylic spray as it is possible that the solvent may react with the existing surface.

 

All looking very good so far!

 

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 15/01/2011 18:30:31

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