Brutus

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by Paul T on 19/04/2017 19:15:19:

DG

Brutus started out as an exercise in geometry by taking the Axe concept and tweaking to suit a smaller and faster boat. As you rightly said one of the problems that I faced during the design period was the inability to scale the structure of water. So a hull shape that worked well on a full size ship would fail on a model and conversely a suitable shape for a model would not work when scaled up.

I did a design draft for the 'A' yacht as a possible EeZeBilt a little while ago, which I thought was more likely to work at model sizes – you can see the very slim entry that I thought would be essential. The chine only starts to provide deflection and lift about the midpoint of the ship:

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

DG

When drawing Brutus I looked at the way the A yacht was designed and another super yacht called Golden Supersport .

I had a basic criteria to follow when designing Brutus and the length of the backward sloping bow on the A yacht fell outside the design brief.

For a short time Brutus had the same 'outboard chine' as the Golden Supersport (best seen on last image) as a way to control the bow wave but the eventual overall hull width fell outside the lcs spec so it never left the drawing board.

Paul

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

the eventual overall hull width fell outside the lcs spec so it never left the drawing board.

There is a strange odour to this statement. I can't quite identify it but it's definitely rural in nature…
DM

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

hi there

I would like to know what the designers of this hull are on and were they smoking it or taking it or even drinking it – before they went to the drawing board. At one time; we used to design 'nice' looking hulls. I would love to see how practical this design of this hull would be in rough seas/weather. I have been looking for photographs and they all seem to be taken on very calm days – bit like the designers mind me thinking along with a bit of Dave's country odour of rural farmyard nature

John

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hi John

There is a video of Brutus, ploughing through the waves. on YouTube, somewhere

Bob

Ps…….It's easy to find

Just type in………"Brutus model boat"

Edited By Bob Abell on 21/04/2017 08:18:53

[Diede van AbsParticipant @diedevanabs87670]

I actually quite like the design language of the Golden Supersport, although I question the efficiency of the hull design.

Very unlike the "A" yacht, which I think is an ugly PO..

I think Brutus will benefit tremendously from a (small) spray rail indeed.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Chaps. Do not confuse "efficiency" and "excessive style" when looking at superyachts!!

​Looking at that one, it seems to me that on a calm surface (and this is presumably where they want to be on it) the small bulb and the fine entry makes for a smooth ride. At higher sea states the swooping outer section comes into play in stopping too much sinkage….??

​Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dave M

I live in a rural area so we often get what townies might describe as 'strange odours'

John

The company is Palmer Johnson Yachts.

Bob

The links to Youtube are on the previous page but thanks for telling people.

Diede

Like you I am not a fan of the A yacht but the bow shape does have lots going for it.

Ash

When did I ever care about excessive style, I am even playing around with hardboard and mineral composites these days.

Paul

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

Posted by ashley needham on 21/04/2017 09:44:12:

Chaps. Do not confuse "efficiency" and "excessive style" when looking at superyachts!!

​Looking at that one, it seems to me that on a calm surface (and this is presumably where they want to be on it) the small bulb and the fine entry makes for a smooth ride. At higher sea states the swooping outer section comes into play in stopping too much sinkage….??

​Ashley

One A yacht design requirement was for a boat with low pitching characteristics in rough weather. Pitching disturbs the mixing, serving and drinking of cocktails. It is also bad for the sauna pools and the dance floor….

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

Hi Bob Ab – sorry for my posting – I certainly wasn't referring to the Model – Brutus – and its designer. My opinion of that is – it reminds me of a straight running model from Tynemouth. That one used to run in the course of a banana. To go back to the actual vessel of the super yacht Golden Supersport – what really concerned me – is – if you look towards the rear end – you will see what looks like giant air intakes. Especially so, if you look at the rear view of the model you will see there are no openings at the stern for any exit of water that is drawn into what looks like the air intakes.

If you have a look at the yard site, they who produced the vessel and look at more pics as I have done – I see that these ;air intakes; are actually stabilisers. Still no signs of her running in rough weather though I wouldn't like to be caught in a force 10 gale in this super yacht – it may upset the hot tub and champers

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi All Seemed to be designed to extricate as much money from pampered souls with more money than sense . The world seems to be full of such likes .Thank my god for Birchwood Boats.Michael

[Dodgy Geezer 1Participant @dodgygeezer1]

The Golden Supersport has an Axe bow, but very shortly after this the flare begins, which means that as the vessel enters a large wave it will begin to throw water to the side and pitch.

By contrast, A has hardly any immediate flare, and only starts throwing water to the side about a third of the way down the hull. You would expect it to cut cleanly into a wave, and sail through it rather than over it with very little pitching.  But you will see that this cutting action requires the bow to be very long and slim…

Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 21/04/2017 18:39:20

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Golden Supersport is just one ugly boat, irrespective of how clever the [pretentious clown of a] designer is and how much the [imbecile of an] owner paid for it. It makes a statement about both – and neither is in the least bit complimentary. Stephen Fry once came up with the word "vomitricious"; original or not, it's very apt here.

I'm very happy to be firmly stuck in the 20th century, when "Bluebird of 1938" was a proper gentleman's motor-yacht and any Fairey power-boat was the yardstick of a joyous plaything.

DM

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 21/04/2017 18:43:51

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dave

The well known saying 'Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder' should be kept in mind when looking at, and critiquing 'modern' design, from that angle of DGs image the A yacht reminds me of a famous vessel created by Jules Verne.

Btw if the Huntsman is your yardstick of a joyous plaything then I am sorry to say that you have seriously wasted your youth.

 

Edited By Paul T on 21/04/2017 18:59:15

[Steve Walker 1Participant @stevewalker1]

I agree with you Dave. Following PaulT's link I looked up the Golden Supersport, then checked out the builders and sellers websites and was horrified to discover that I would have to part with $30million to buy one to hold 12 of us. I can get more folk than that into and old caravan I have. A couple of old oil barrels, a decent outboard and my caravan would win a beauty contest. Looks like the builders had the plan upside down.

I would go even further back than you in the beauty stakes. Take one tea clipper, 50hrs of Bob Wilsons time and hey presto…..something you would want to own. Build it, crew it with 50 old salts and still have enough money left over to buy a few bottles of JD to consume as you circle the globe appreciating global warming.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Steve

Please take this as a friendly warning…..Don't mention global warming

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Paul

The problem is that my youth is firmly stuck in the 20th century, too. Back then objects of beauty really were beautiful:
Compare the 1969 Rolls Phantom 5 with a 2017 Phantom 7 – no contest. A Mk 9 Spitfire with an F35? You're joking. QE2 with any modern cruise ship? Ugh! A six-berth Fairey Swordsman 33 with a Sunseeker San Remo? Do me a favour!

Some time ago Liz and I were walking around a posh marina in the south of France. The place was heaving with motor yachts and super-yachts, all looking pretty much identical and like something out of sci-fi, yet the boat which drew everyone's attention was a restored 1920's motor-cruiser – complete with acres of polished wood and brass and no GRP to be seen. I wish I could remember the name – I think it started with an A and was very short.

BTW wasn't Jules Verne a 19th century writer? And didn't that image of Nautilus come from the Disney film of 1954? Golden Supersport might not be so new then, but it's still breathtakingly ugly – even when viewed sober!

Dave M

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Dave

Is there any such thing as an original design anymore?

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Nope. It don't look like it, m'duck…..

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Just taken delivery of some chunky 12v batteries from the Component Shop two of which are destined for Brutus, all being well the 'new Brutus' will be sailing at New Brighton during the upcoming half term holiday.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

That will be interesting, Capt Paul

Have you made any improvements?………..As if that was possible

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Bob

Oh yes there have been improvements and many changes.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Lime green paint?? Air-brake? Roaring sound module….glowing eyes?? All this and more. Cant wait.

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Ash

It now has a cammo/dazzle paint job but no lime green.

No air-brake but a nice pair of stainless steel racing props.

I don't like sound modules as they all sound tinny but I am willing to be impressed by a very good Merlin engine sound.

The eyes and teeth have been replaced by something far more outrageous.

I can reveal that the bow now sports a menacing wave deflecting wing.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Cor blimey guv !

​Our various dives into things different has shown me that bow behaviour can be most perplexing. Usually the boat is only happy at one particular speed (full on) and doesn't like anything else.

We have several craft that are very wet at slow speeds and/or need a special technique to lift off on startup. Air propulsion is particularly perplexing due to the high thrust line, most noticeable when you are trying to make the craft resemble the original and therefore don't have much room for alterations.

Look forward to seeing the improvements.

Ashley

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