What boat to make?

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What boat to make?

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25 January 2015 at 11:03 #55409
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Hi,

I am a 14 year old and have taken an interest in boat modeling after my grandfather introduced it to me. I have a 3D printer at my disposal so the actual manufacture of parts is relatively easy. The problem i have is i have a second hand boat hull that my grandfather had picked up along the way but it didn't come with any designs or scale therefore i am struggling to see what i could actually make it into because of my lack of real world ship knowledge.

The dimensions are:

Width (measured at 5cm intervals starting at the front): 10, 15, 19, 22, 24, 26, 28, 28, 28.5, 28.5, 28.5, 29, 29, 29 with a rough total length of 84cm. The depth of the boat is very shallow V hull that starts at the back at 7.5cm to 6.5cm on average to then 1cm at the front.

I would quite like to make a fast attack craft and am not to fussed about precise scales but would be good if it looked realistic.

Thanks Any help would be most appreciated
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25 January 2015 at 11:03 #2460
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Need help finding a scale boat to fit my hull
25 January 2015 at 11:15 #55410
The Long Build
Participant
@thelongbuild
3D Printer !! you are lucky..

Are you able to post a picture of the hull to give a better Idea. ?.
25 January 2015 at 14:01 #55411
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Hi, Thanks for responding Hope these images help!
25 January 2015 at 14:26 #55412
Charles Oates
Participant
@charlesoates31738
Hi Mathew, nice hull you have there, a fast electric I think. It wasn't meant to be a fast attack boat, but it should convert quite nicely. you need to keep it light, and plan the interior for acces before you build.

google a picturef model slipwaySentinel. it is a good looking boat and you could take the layout asthe inspiration for your build.

keep coming back with your questions, and we will learn from you about using a 3d printer for modeling.

Charles.
25 January 2015 at 15:03 #55413
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Thanks Charles! Yeah, slipway looks much more like the shape of the hull i have! Now we know what it could look like do you guys have any suggestions of ways in which to attach the deck to the hull and if so what should it be made from? I have stacks of nice 2-3mm plywood that i was considering using but the problem i have is how to make a clean cut join between the hull and the platform because the actual line on the top of the hull is not completely straight in the y axis?

Any suggestions?
25 January 2015 at 16:14 #55418
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello Matthew and welcome to the forum.

Your hull would make an excellent shallow draft fast patrol boat such as the Fast Attack 50 craft from Tampa Yacht.

A straight forward build with the potential for very high speeds.

You can join plywood to the hull with a twin pack glue such as Araldite but you might have to 'scribe' (shape the plywood by notching) the wood to make it fit the hull curve.

The first thing that I would do is to make sure the hull is 'square' (level and non twisted) and then fit some stiffening bulkheads to prevent the hull from twisting and flexing.

Paul

btw don't forget that most 3D printed items are water soluble and might have to be treated before using on your boat.

PM sent

Edited By Paul T on 25/01/2015 16:33:09
25 January 2015 at 17:00 #55420
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
Matthew
I'm sorry to be a party-pooper but that hull is a fast-electric model and looks very much like it was intended for twin waterjet drives. It is very little like HMCC Sentinel, which is more of a "short, fat warship" (according to Vosper's designers) and certainly not a planing hull. Trust me – "Nellie" is a ship very close to my heart, even if she looks like an assortment of grey sheds stuck on top of a sawn-off minesweeper hull!
Paul's suggestion seems more in line with the hull shape, or there's always Slipway's Kawkab fast patrol boat.
Dave M
25 January 2015 at 17:13 #55422
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Yeah, i can see where you are coming from with that! The slipways, that you and Paul have suggested, do seem to look more like the right shape. While i was searching for the slipways i came across these? Opinions? Good or completely ridiculous?
25 January 2015 at 17:45 #55424
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
It's a lot more like it, matey, but you are really starting off the hard way, though. I'm sure your grandad has every good intention for your modelling interest but this isn't the ideal model to begin with. The hull you have will need a lot of power to get it to perform (like a big fat brushless motor) and probably a surface drive etc. This sort of hull can be very unforgiving if you set it up even slightly wrong.

IMHO you'd be best off starting with something like Glynn Guest's Elco or Vosper MTB's. These are made of wood from published plans; designed for novice boat builders and are guaranteed performers with relatively cheap motors and batteries. The plans also have quite a bit of detail of such items as guns, torpedo launchers etc – that would be a great place to practice your 3D printing skills.

Here's a link to the plans available. As a bonus, many of these plans were originally published free with copies of Model Boats and there's bound to be someone who will let you have theirs for a donation to the RNLI or similar. **LINK**

sg=0&min=&max=

Dave M
25 January 2015 at 18:05 #55425
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Matthew

The Ghost is really an old design and something of a technological dead end but it is proving fun to reverse engineer and design as a model. The research is just about complete and I will be producing cad drawings over the next few weeks.

Your hull has those two cutouts for waterjets …..do you have both waterjets and are they both complete?

If it were my hull I would build what is called a 'freelance' model (which is basically something that you make up) I would use the Tampa Fast Attack or the patrol boat that you have shown us as a basis for a simple but effective model.

If you build a freelance model you can play around with the boat and add all sorts of bits and pieces, freelance is fun.

Paul
25 January 2015 at 18:13 #55426
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Dave- I can see where you are coming from. When my grandfather showed me it i was a bit confused about how it would work? I guess he is using it as a drop me in the deep end approach also it was in way worse condition when i got it, with holes, cracks and peeling paint. So although it will be difficult i have invested quite a bit of time so far in restoring it to this stage and am not sure what the next steps are?

At a basic level i am just trying to make the best of a bad/difficult situation and was wondering what you would advise if i was going to stick with this hull?
25 January 2015 at 18:13 #55427
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Hey Mr Paul,

Nice! Would love to see the CAD for the Ghost, sounds very cool and yes those 2 holes are fitted to jet motor mounts and intakes i have printed for the complete water jets and i intend to get a big beefy motor on a prop to add some real power given how weak the jets are!

Also, with the actual super structure aspect all the guidance on 'freelance' would be most appreciated! I apologise for my lack of boating knowledge! Oh so freelance is like looking at a boat and sort of using it as inspiration but actually making up?

Kind regards

Matthew

Edited By Matthew B on 25/01/2015 18:20:56

Edited By Matthew B on 25/01/2015 18:22:38
25 January 2015 at 19:18 #55429
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hi Matthew

When the drawings are complete I will email you a set.

Freelance is fun and the best part is that no one can say it doesn't look like the real thing, just choose the boat that you like the best and start from there.

We will give you all of the help and advice that you need (probably too much help).

Have you got any RC equipment such as transmitters etc?

Paul
25 January 2015 at 19:52 #55431
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Hey Paul,

Yeah it does sound the most fun and yes i have absolutely lodes! I am quite the RC car and RC heli guy so i have a whole shed full of cars, old old boats and a few rather nice helis. Talking about helis i probably will nick one of the high power motors from one of them for the main motor to give it a bit of punch

p.s. and to you comment of to much help, i would say given how rubbish and new i am to the whole boat thing i don't think there will ever be to much help I really appreciate it, i never though i would get this many responses when i first joined the forum!

Oh and look what just finished on the printer!!!!!
26 January 2015 at 08:42 #55441
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
That's very interesting, Matthew

Tell us more about the 3D printer, please

Was the water spout made, complete with the innards etc?

Bob
26 January 2015 at 16:58 #55452
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Hi Bob,

The 3D printer is a WANHAO Duplicator 4S (The dual nozzle model). Therefore meaning i can print in 2 of the 3 possible plastics at any one time. This dual nozzle type of printer allows me to print what i think you are talking about with the image above, complex innards.

Although, that laser cannon type thing was made completely with the 3D printer; it is for show so has not actual innards such as piping or channels that you would use to fire projectiles/water. However, i can print absolutely anything, joints, gears, propellers ect and blocks/objects of material with complex pipe work in build.

The way in which i do this is use either PLA or PVC (the 2 none water soluble plastics) to print the main object with then PVA (the water soluble plastic) in all the places you don't want there to be any plastic at the end.

The reason one must do this is because the PVC or PLA cannot be printed into thin air so requires the PVA as a support structure (serving a purpose kind of like scaffold in real buildings) so once the item is constructed up in layers with all gaps filled with one of the 2 plastics it is then submerged in water. Resulting in the PVA dissolving leaving your complex item ready to bolt straight onto your boat!

If you have any other questions on the subject i might open a separate thread about it and would be very happy to answer them.

Matthew

Edited By Matthew B on 26/01/2015 17:01:53
26 January 2015 at 17:08 #55453
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
Hello Matthew

Considering you are only 14 years of age, you are destined for a bright future!

3D printing is only in it`s infancy and can only get better

Well done, Matthew and thank you

It would be interesting to see other examples of your work, please?

Bob
26 January 2015 at 17:21 #55455
Paul T
Participant
@pault84577
Hello Matthew

Thank you for the master class in 3D printing, re our previous conversation I don't know about us helping you because if you keep up this level of expertise we will be coming to you for help.

Paul
26 January 2015 at 18:33 #55459
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Hey Paul and Bob,

Thank you both for such nice comments! The main reason i am learning to 3D print is because i wish to become an engineer when i am older and most of designing is done of CAD software so i feel it is only sensible to master it before i get anywhere near the real job! The 3D printer is a bonus is the way that i can actually use my 'AutoCAD' designs and send them to the real world with the click of a button!

Also to your comment on seeing some of my work, i have some examples here;

Just a general array of nick knacks and experiments!

Using the 3D printer to improve the 3D printer! (mounting system for top perspex)

My current project, this is the underside of the boat with my 2 part jet mount connected. The idea behind this is that the motor have a easier and more manageable mount that is more water tight instead of having the jet straight onto the boat hull. The printer is currently working on the other mount for the hull (should be all attached my this evening).

P.s sorry haven't got many impressive things to show yet; only had the printer and software 3 weeks

Matthew
26 January 2015 at 18:40 #55460
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
Excellent work, Matthew

We are most impressed

We would like to see a picture of your machine, please

Bob
26 January 2015 at 18:48 #55461
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
Thank you Bob,

Here; sorry picture quality not great.

Edited By Matthew B on 26/01/2015 18:49:17
26 January 2015 at 18:55 #55462
Bob Abell 2
Participant
@bobabell2
Thank you, Matthew

Is the plastic hot during the printing process and how do you get over the unevenness of the printed layers?

Bob
26 January 2015 at 18:58 #55463
CookieOld
Participant
@cookieold
Hi Matthew , What a breath of fresh air to see young blood getting into modelling instead of playing on your Xbox ECT keep it up .

Dave
26 January 2015 at 19:00 #55464
Matthew B
Participant
@matthewb78704
The way in which the 3D printers are very clever with the layers is that because there surface area to volume ratio is so tiny it means the surface tension stops the plastic from spreading allowing for it to print 0.1mm layers, which yes then does leave a slight ribbed affect but only at 0.1mm intervals so it isn't a huge problem

Yes, the filament comes on a big spool and it heated in the nozzles and a stepper motor pushes the hot plastic out where needed.

Matthew
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