Tiddler by Vic Smeed

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

I am going to have a go at building the tug 'Tiddler' by Vic Smeed. I am thinking of buying the hobbystore plan and multiplying it by 1.5 to give a 30" long hull. Any hints and tips would be greatly appreciated because this will be my first model boat.

PhilH

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Phil

The Tiddler is a nice model to build and the drawings are fairly easy to follow, the most difficult part is gathering the hull plates together above the propeller but if you take your time there shouldn't be a problem.

Good look

Paul

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

Paul, I was thinking of using 3mm ply spine and frames and 1/8" balsa sheet for the hull plates. Does that sound a good idea for my 30" version or is the ply a bit OTT. I notice that the 20" version is all balsa for the hull.

PhilH

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Phil

As with everything else in life different people prefer different things, if I were building the Tiddler again I would build it 3ft long and use 4mm birchply for the frames and flat bottom and 2mm aircraft quality birchply for everything else.

The 4mm ply adds enormous strength to the model and the 2mm ply is as easy to bend as balsa but far stronger.

I should add that I am not a fan of balsa but don't let my prejudice put you off from using it.

Paul

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

Thanks Paul,

Very useful points. The only thing that concerned me about plywood was my previous experience with DIY stuff and panel or jigsaws i.e., the stuff delaminates horribly – typically on the back edge of the saw cut when cutting across the grain. However, a few people have already steered me towards the birch ply and I will be using a fine fret saw so I hope it will be more successful.

I ordered the drawing this afternoon and will consider the scale (30" vs 36&quot when it arrives. I had noticed a 36" version plan advertised on another site and came across a previous thread where you had suggested a 36" version – perhaps with steam power? I like that idea.

PhilH

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Phil

There are many different types of plywood and it is very true to say that you get what you pay for.

As a general rule if you don't know the differences between different qualities of timbers it is best to avoid the large DIY outlets and visit trade based timber yards or builders merchants instead where you will receive correct advice and decent quality materials.

Better still buy your materials from companies like SLEC who specialise in model quality timbers.

I always use multicore birchply and cut it with a bandsaw or jigsaw.

Steam is fun but is a very hard taskmaster so think carefully and try to talk to steam modellers at the lakeside

Paul

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

Thanks again Paul,

Just phoned one of my local yards and they suggested I go online because they believe their ply is fine but they suggest there is better quality ply out there – so Ive now contacted SLEC.

I don't have a bandsaw or jigsaw except for a hand held DIY version. Ill get the good quality ply as you and others have suggested and have a very careful go with a fret saw first.

I take your point regarding the steam suggestion. Ill stick with electrickery for this first build and if that works well – I will consider steam power for another build.

Thanks,

PhilH

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Phil

A fret saw will take ages, give you cramp and still not do a decent cut (the blade wanders)

When cutting out parts / frames for large models I always reach for the power tools.

My tools are all ex-construction site [the only hobby tools I have are a couple of Dremel items]. My jigsaw is a massive Bosch 110v GST 80 PBE that I have had since the early 90s, I just choose the correct blade for cutting thin ply and crack on with cutting the parts out.

I prefer the jigsaw to the bandsaw as it cuts twice as fast and is far more manoeuvrable on large sheets of ply. You don't need any special tools or equipment as your DIY kit will be fine……..but it is best to invest in some good quality blades as they tend to cut straighter lines.

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I would suggest that a Bandsaw and a Sander really are essential power tools for scratch building

And a vertical drill of course

Or build your model from a kit

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

I don't agree that a bandsaw is truly essential for someone who is just starting off as it is a large and quite expensive piece of equipment that does have limitations e.g. cutting out window openings. I would also suggest that a vertical/pillar drill is not truly essential due to cost and size.

I would recommend a visit to B&Q to buy from their performance power range of power tools…..cordless drill £14, detail/corner sander £18 and Jigsaw £19 ……all cheap and cheerful and easily capable of meeting the power tool needs of the start up model builder.

Paul

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi Phil I agree with most things suggested with the addition of a Japanees draw saw .Extremely fine cut with 40 teeth per inch . Currently being sold at your local Lidl stores at 7.99 with a spare blade .

Straight cuts are as accurate as your drawing Michael

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

Thanks all,

I have a vertical bench drill plus millers and lathe. Hand power tools – I have a small power sander and a small rechargeable 3 lobed detail sander. I also have quite a good hand held jigsaw which will definitely work for hacking out the big pieces of ply to within a few millimetres and one of those cute Dremel multi tool drills.

I have never come across a Japanese draw saw so Ill look into it.

PhilH

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

For more details on the advantages of Japanese draw saws (so called because they cut on the pull as opposed to traditional European saws that cut on the push), there is a page of explanations on the website of the German woodworking tool sellers Dictum: **LINK**.

If you scroll down past the initial sales spiel, you'll find a section called "The advantages of Japanese saws".

Dictum sells great top quality tools, but be warned and make sure you sit down before you take a gander at their prices.

/Mattias

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob,

That's complete overkill for a small model like this. No way do you need a bandsaw or pillar drill! I have neither of these and have been modelling for over 50 years!

As Paul says, modest power tools do make things easier and anything you can't cut with a Stanley knife, a jig saw will make short work of and accurately too with the correct blade.

Colin

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Colin…..The fact that you do not possess any of these tools…..Indicates that you don't know what you're missing

Take no notice, Phil!….They are almost essential

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Phil

As you have seen the question of 'best' tools can be very emotive…….you could ask the same question of 20 modellers and get 20 totally different answers all of which will be accompanied with a long list of very good reasons why this particular selection is best.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob, I completely accept that they are very nice items to have and if you have then then they will be made good use of. However it is horses for courses, I made a MEX Silver Medal winning model with a hull of balsa and gumstrip paper with 1/16 in ply decks essentially in the cupboard under the stairs of our first house.

I still use balsa ply and gumstrip being firmly set in my ways, I still tend to build smallish models, and can't imagine what I would need a bandsaw for.

The other critical point is that neither then, nor in my current 10x6ft workshop, do I have space for either item given the amount of stuff in there already! You build much larger models and have a workshop that falls little short of Dave Milbourn's palatial accommodation. We operate on different scales and therefore use different tool sets. I do in fact have a selection of ProXXon mini tools including a sander, jigsaw and circular saw though.

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin

You must be a very tidy person to produce models is such a small space I don't even know how DM (bless him) manages in his custom built bunker. On a clear day I can just see the far wall of my workshop and my bench has its own postcode and I still don't have enough space.

I do have a pillar drill, bench saw, bench planer, vertical miller, compressor, mig, tig & arc welders as well as a mass of hand held power / cordless tools……….and I cant use a single one as they are all buried beneath boats, half built boats, abandoned prototypes, stacks of plywood and hardwood that were such good bargains.

Paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul, I am very similar to yourself, everything just piles up with the latest project precariously balanced on top. I am not neat and tidy at all, quite the opposite! The key factor for domestic harmony is that my Wife never has occasion to enter or clean the workshop and so considers it my entire responsibility.

However, if upon occasion operations overflow on to the dining room table as is sometimes the case then a very strict regime is employed to clear the mess pronto.

I was the same at work, I wholeheartedly embraced the philosophy that a clean desk is the sign of an empty mind. I always knew exactly where everything was. No one else did of course which was a distinct advantage sometimes.

Works for us anyway.

Colin

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

I reckon Ill be ok with the fret saw for this first attempt – remember – this boat only has about 7 half frames I reckon I'll cut them out in a day or so by hand. If I get to a bigger No2 boat – Ill consider getting some additional power.

If I do get to No 2 and without causing a fight – which power saw does everyone think is the best for cutting intricate ply frames – a bandsaw or one of those bench top jigsaws?

By the way – I'm impressed with SLEC. I placed an order yesterday afternoon and the wood turned up today.

PhilH

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

I'd say that that depends on what one's priorities are.

A bandsaw has the disadvantage that it simply cannot be used to do internal cuts like cutting out the interior of a closed frame. Because the blade is a continous loop, you just cannot get it in there without at some place cutting through the periphery.

With a scroll saw this is not a problem: one just slacks off the blade tension, unhooks the blade at one end, threads it through an initial drilled or otherwise created hole, hooks it back up and retensions the blade.

On the other hand I have found it neigh on impossible to do a perfectly straight cut with my table top scroll saw: even with a guide for the workpiece, the blade is too flexible and it just won't cut dead straight. On that point the bandsaw is many times better, and with a bit of normal care makes it easy enough to do long, straight cuts.

As for curves, I find the bandsaw better for getting a nice, smooth and gradual curvature, whereas the scroll saw, with its much thinner blade, can make tighter turns.

When looking at these kinds of saw don't forget to take into account that they both suffer to some extent from throat issues. Not of the coughing kind, but they both have a limit as to which depth of workpiece will pass between the blade and the back pillar.

These two types of saw are thus not, I think, so much alternatives for each other as complimentary. What the one does very well the other does less well so, and vice versa.

Having both, I'd say that if I could have only one of them I would plump for the bandsaw, which I use much more than my scroll saw.

/Mattias

Edited By Banjoman on 10/12/2014 19:38:23

Edited By Banjoman on 10/12/2014 19:39:29

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

Right,

I received the plan and decided that I would build it at 1.5x original because I would be using electrical drive. This makes the boat 30" long.

The first shot shows my start on the plywood parts. This might cause a few frowns from experienced builders but I decided to cut the frames, backbone and deck from 1/8" thick ply. If I did a rewind – I would have probably used 1/4" for the backbone, maybe 1/4 or 3/16" for the frames and 3/32" for the deck. But we are where we are.

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

This next shot shows the frames at the next stage with some of the middles removed to give more internal space. I cut portions out of the rear frames for the rudder control. I also milled a couple of rectangular pieces for a prop shaft tunnel to strengthen the backbone but Im not sure that they will be required.

I milled the 1/8" square stringer slots on my milling machine with a new 1/8" end mill.

All the frame cutting was with a hand held fret saw.

[Philip HaleParticipant @philiphale]

I changed the suggested build sequence slightly because of the flimsy backbone. The cans were handy little weights. Handy in more ways than just weights.

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