Suzie Q by Vic Smeed

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Tony

Harry will no doubt address the prop question. He favours buying from Hobbyking, but before you do the same make sure that their props will fit your shaft. I think they are dog-drive whereas most UK shafts are simple metric threads. I use and can recommend PropShop props. They are eye-wateringly expensive but arguably the best in the world.

I don't have the plan but I'd say that if you have used a prop tube of the same dimensions as the one on the plan then you won't need any extra support if there's none shown. Vic tended to know what he was doing!

As regards an oiler, here's the fancy version **LINK** or you can just solder a 4mm OD brass tube into a hole drilled in the prop tube. If you chose this method then remove any drilling swarf from inside the tube and make sure the oiler tube won't foul the prop shaft once reassembled.

If your rudder shaft is metal-inside-a-metal-tube then a couple of drops of sewing-machine oil will do the job. If it's metal in plastic then don't bother – it will "self-lubricate".

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 27/10/2016 11:20:09

[Tony CottonParticipant @tonycotton48491]

Hello Dave, Thank you for your reply.

I have a prop shaft with 4mm threads. I am not sure how to choose an appropriate propellor ?? Do I buy a few and try out which seems best for what I want to achieve ???

I will look at PropShop and see what they have.

The oiler looks interesting for the prop shaft along with waterproof lubricant, though I may drill and fit a tube myself as soldering is second nature to me.

The rudder is metal in plastic so will fit and forget.

Regards

Tony

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

The prop size will depend on which motor you have fitted and what voltage you intend to run it on. Can you tell us, please? Buying a few different props to try is always a good idea but do bear in mind that PropShop's props are over twenty quid each! We might collectively suggest some 2-blade plastic types once the motor has been identified.

DM

[Tony CottonParticipant @tonycotton48491]

Hello Dave, A motor I acquired is a brushed Torpedo 500 which will fit in easily. As a newby at model boats and only have a drawing without any idea of what to use in it, I am not sure if its the right motor, but its what I have.

Batteries I have, from playing around with robots are 2900mAh AA size nominally 1.2v. I have 16 of them and thought of using a bank of 8 giving typically 9.6v though I could use more if I am not pushing it too high ?? I understand the motor is good for up to 15v.

I can try 2 blade plastic but there seems to be so many choices.

Regards

Tony

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Start with a standard pitch 35mm 2-blade. You might also buy an X35 (higher pitch). 9.6v should be OK but you might not get much running time from 2.9AH cells. It's starrt, though.

DM

[Tony CottonParticipant @tonycotton48491]

Thank you Dave, I will get on to it.

I think maybe I will buy some batteries specific for the boat. I have seen LiPo and a bit apprehensive about the safety of them, but they seem to be lighter and more effective when calling on high current to drive the motor.

I did see a preference for brushless motors as they would be able to cope better if they get wet at any time. Why are there 2 types of manufacture ?? where the inner core or outer case rotates ??

This hobby is very interesting but I am obviously on the steep part of the learning curve asking at times what might be regarded as silly questions.

Regards.

Tony

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

There's a lot more on this website than just a Forum, Tony. For example, have a look at this, which should answer

most of your questions about brushless motors **LINK**

Dave M

[Tony CottonParticipant @tonycotton48491]

Hello Dave M,

Being new to this website I haven't yet picked up on what I have available to me. Many thanks for your help and pointing me towards much more information than I could have thought possible.

The motors and accompanied information you linked me to is very helpful in bringing me into a "new experience" which I am beginning to realise is so much more than I had expected.

Regards

Tony

[Andrew Martin 3Participant @andrewmartin3]

I have just found this and great minds think alike as I have built three of these now in past 18 months. Similar to yours I too made the superstructure removable. You went the right way with ply skinning as the balsa version I made did not handle the stress of a brushless motor that I used.

Version 1 was all balsa as per plan apart from deck where it states use obeche i just used hard balsa. I was advised by RBC kits that the motor they used in their prototype was only available in Germany, however an equivelent was this http://www.4-max.co.uk/pppo-3548.htm on 3 lipos or 4 lipos. I used a 40mm X Type 1.4 pitch prop on 3 lipos and 35mm 1.4 pitch xtype on 4 lipos. As balsa is very vunerable I had to glass and epoxy coat the outside which took the weight above even the all ply boat.

Version 2 was as per yours was all ply apart from deck where I used ply as well instead of obeche. All same motor etc

Version 3 was built using lite ply and balsa. Using 3mm liteply formers, balsa stringers and 2mm liteply for the rest. I also used balsa at the bow section as easier than trying to bend liteply. This even after painting was the lightest of all three by considerable margin. Consequently the quickest with same set up.

You can get everything you need for electrics from 4 max at reasonble cost apart from radio gear. Contrary to others here I have had nothing but bad experiences using Hobbyking in the UK. however that's another subject.

Personally I wouldnt worry too much about dips etc, as long as hull is reasonably straight and true it will be fine. The propshaft I did not reinforce any of mine on outside but did inside with a small piece of ply with a small piece of glasscloth and 5 minute epoxy.

As others have said Cof G is important.

I actually saw one of these a couple of weeks back on our local lake and he was using 9.6v nimh cells, a Graupner speed 600 8.4 v and a 40mm x type prop and that went well I did'nt have mine so could not see the difference. What you have to remember is brushed and brushless have different attributes, so slow running on a brushed motor is infinately better than with a brushless motor. The brushless however has more torque and therefore can spin a larger or prop with more pitch more efficently.

Another tip on this boat I found too much rudder movement had no real effect, no need to go above 25 to 30 degrees. If you go above it tends to tip the boat in and could possibly overturn it if done at too much speed.

Diede and I did have some correspondence over this boat back in June 2015 when I first ventured across it.

Hope this helps regards

Andy

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Andrew

I use a staring power percent of 10% on the Hobbyking car ESCs gives an equal slow speed of a brush motor setup.

My rudder setup is under 20 degrees on my Sea Hornet and Sea Commander as at high speed the boats get to touchie!!!

Harry

[Tony CottonParticipant @tonycotton48491]

Thanks for your input Andy. I am trying to pick up on other people's experiences as I am a beginner at model boats even though I bought the plan about 40 years ago. I did try originally to build it as suggested with a balsa hull but gave up with it as I had decided it was too flimsy. I tried to cover it with fibreglass at the time and really messed up so it went in the bin and the plan into a cupboard, only to find it recently which lit up my feelings to have another go. I remembered my first experience and went for the ply hull straight off.

The information I gained here has been invaluable and set me hopefully going in the right direction. The hull has a slight deviation near the front due to bending the ply into position which is only visible when looking with the hull upside down and from the front !! Will no doubt find out if its OK when I get it in the water.

I have a Torpedo 500 brushed motor and a 40mm prop which I will try driving from a batch of NiMh batteries I already have from other hobby projects.

I had no idea about rudder angle but mine is about +/- 20 degrees.

Thanks to Harry I bought the RC setup he suggested and had it all wired up on the bench which works well. I also bought a waterproof servo to control the rudder.

I have no idea about weight but it will be whatever it is this time around. What weights are your models ??

Many thanks for the replies.

I do have another plan TARPON which looks more involved. If Suzie Q goes OK I might try it but the planking looks a bit of a problem !!

Tony

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Tony

I build my boats from 4mm frames and keel with 4 to 6mm stringers, 2mm plywood skin.

Fibreglass resin the inside and out, add paint and the others bits.

As you say it will weight whatever, but, built to last!!!

I have skinned one boat with balsa and it's going to be reskinned in plywood in the future.

The Tarpon sounds a bit interesting!!!

I started a SG&K Gentleman's Runabout(May 2011 Marine Modelling), mine is 840mm long.

It has the curves!!!!

It is my first into planking, but, I have a few mods in the pipe line from the original setup.

The 3639-1100 kv motor is going up under the dash and the cockpit will open from the windscreen back to the rear of the engine hatch.

The rudder on the plan I dislike, so I redesign it to match the boat shape.

Harry

[Andrew Martin 3Participant @andrewmartin3]

Hi All

I can vouch also for the 3639-1100 kv motor with the 60am car controller from Hobbyking, however as I have said previously Hobbyking just doesnt seem to work for me.

I should state I am more of an model aircraft builder of some 35+ years than boats, I started in electric flight back in early 80s but believe my skills learnt in this can be transfereable to boats. I try to build lightness in any structure and to strengthen where necessary, whereas if built heavy it is really difficult to lose weight. Of course there are very many people on here who have vastly more experience than me, I just look at the quality of the builds on this forum and am totally spellbound and amazed by it and am enjoying learning from my peers.

Tony try the 500 on 6 cells first, then try 7 and then 8. If you find thats not working for you and you want a straight swap buy a graupner speed 600 8.4v, there are various sources for them and range in price from £7.00 upwards. I believe they are same diameter and very similar in length. Not sure about diameter of the shaft though so you may need to change part of your coupling. The good thing about this motor is you can remove the flux ring (which is a metal band surrounding the motor) and it spins faster, however doing this also increases current use therefore reducing your run time. I wont go into how you can tune brushed motors as too complex here. One thing I learnt from electric flight using brushed motors is that motors spin faster and are more efficient in one direction than the other as they are timed to do so, look at the instructions you have with the motor to tell you which way that is and obviously fit the right prop for either right hand or left hand rotation.

In regards to props, has anyone shown you the correct way these should be fitted to the propshaft? I wasnt shown and kept losing props. My current understanding is at the prop end you fit the washer first, then the nut and then the prop. Screw the prop home and then tighten the nut against the prop to lock it. The shaft should be free floating at other end with no nut and ideally you need to have minimal end float on the shaft at prop end. To tighten or loosen end float move shaft in or out of coupling. You also need to lubricate the shaft and this alone has good debate here on the best way to do it

Dont worry about the deviation I,m pretty sure it will be fine, even if it pulls slightly to one side correct with rudder. One for future thought if using ply, which you might not have tried is to try soaking it in the bath/sink for a hour or so prior to putting on model, secondly you might want to fit opposing parts at same time such as sides and letting them dry together which alleviates stresses and hopefully any warps or deviations. Also stringers I dont tend to use 6mm I use 2 x 3mm as the 3mm is easier to bend and stay in place, alternativley steam the 6mm to shape prior to fitting.

To be honest I have never weighed the models but can tell there is an appreciable difference between all three.

One thing you may want to think about and I havent seen it mentioned here is to put some floatation material or foam in just in case boat overturns. I use EPE foam pool noodles which are lightweight and can be cut down and put in various areas. I dont tend to stick them in other than a very small dab of silicone to hold in place.

Harry thanks for the advice re the speed controller,Ill give it a try interestingly Im just about to start on a sea commander. I have the plans and this weekend will cut all formers etc. As I have a batch of marine ply in 3mm and 4 mm a majority will be cut from this, I intend to skin the outside with 1.5mm beech ply, then epoxy coat the lot and paint on top.

All the best Andy

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Andrew

We use the dog drive setup on our boats and dropping props into the depths is not a problem.

Reverse also no problem, I only use 25% reverse power setup on the ESC.

The 3639-1100 will go OK in the Sea Commander, but I am using a D3548/4-1100kv(a bit more grunt) and I had two new ones in stock.

If you made the whole cabin one piece on the Sea Commander, works great!!!

Harry

[Tony CottonParticipant @tonycotton48491]

I seem to have got lost for the last year but now I am looking for a "Model Maker and Model Boats" magazine dated April 1965 which has building notes for Suzie Q.

Any thoughts of where I can obtain the mag. would be appreciated.

Tony

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Just posted the March and April magazine articles in the Vic Smeed thread.

[Tony CottonParticipant @tonycotton48491]

Thank you Tony. Much appreciated.

Tony

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